Meet Peter Blayney from Bluetron - the godfather of Verification of Competencies!

• Confined Space Training Online (VOC Refresher RIIWHS202E)
• Gas Test Atmospheres Training (VOC Refresher MSMWHS217) Online
• Issue Work Permits Training (VOC Refresher MSMPER300) Online
• Work in Accordance with an Issued Permit Training (VOC Refresher MSMPER200) Online

TRANSCRIPT 

Unknown Speaker

This is an ohs.com.au production

Brendan Torazzi
Welcome to Episode 53 of the Australian Health and Safety Business Podcast. I'm Brendan Torazzi, the host of the show and today I'm joined with Peter Blaney from Blue Tron.

Unknown Speaker
Good morning, Peter. Morning, brand new morning everyone.

Brendan Torazzi
Now, um, you started life out as a WorkSafe. Inspector, tell us a little bit about your journey.

Unknown Speaker
What the journey to become an inspector or Well,

Brendan Torazzi
okay, well that's that's a good point, we could go beyond the inspector and dial it right back to where you were in the

Unknown Speaker
army, weren't you? Yeah, I did 10 years and was trying regular army left there worked as a workplace trainer and assessor, with a registered training organisation in Brisbane, left there and became a work health and safety inspector worth Health and Safety Queensland. Yep.

Brendan Torazzi
And then and so how did the army sort of set you up for getting into training and assessment?

Unknown Speaker
Well, the Army is very structured in its training, discipline. So as a, as a soldier and going through all of the hoops, being trained as a soldier, etc, to becoming a an instructor, as a senior NCO as you work up through the ranks you qualify to try and say as your troops. So I've worked my way up through to staff sergeant finished up driving a desk at the head of core for our Australian core transport, posted to Canberra. And we used to look after trade training for a while my role was trade training other ranks so I used to look after for army training schools within the related to the corps or transport. So in 1989, I left there and started working as a trainer for a registered training organisation or private training organisation, which you know of that one.

Brendan Torazzi
Was that was that ad. So that was college of warehousing. That's right. So was it an idea? Was it an RTO? Back then? Or was it they called?

Unknown Speaker
Yeah, RTOS. Were sort of, I guess I weren't really in existence as per se, other than technical types. Yeah. So we're college warehousing in roundabout, or was in the 90s. registered as a training registered training organisation? They were for my mind, one of the first private RTOS in Queensland, if not Australia, at the time. Yeah. Because I ended up being the training manager for Queensland with the college and then moved on from there to become a work health and safety inspector. Work Health and Safety Queensland based out of Brisbane north block which France so we add jurisdiction for our branch was everything from the Bribie Island turn off to the Brisbane River?

Brendan Torazzi
And I guess really, when you think about it, like the army would, the standards would be really high. So then going to the general public, it would be was it easier dealing with the general public? Or would you say that it was easier working in the Army because the participants knew the rules?

Unknown Speaker
Well, yeah, so easier in the army, because everyone knew the rules. Let's just say the other thing is when you hold rank, do as I say, and jump out over Hi, I asked you to otherwise suffer the consequences. So with civilian the transition from military life to civilian life was a difficult one. Just coming to terms with you know, some of the do some,

Brendan Torazzi
they might tell you to bugger off. Exactly. It was just

Unknown Speaker
read my mind. I was gonna say the same thing. So that was a bit of a learning curve. Yeah, so working as a trainer in civilian life was wasn't as rigorous as what was in the army. Yeah. A little bit more laid back and had a quite a variety of clients or students from trainees He's in the mining sector to trainees in warehousing in logistics space. And then there was a lot of long term unemployed people that were on a lot of our programmes that we had developed to satisfy that made. So people were from all walks of life. So going through that process was a good learning process for me dealing with all the different nuances of the client. Yeah, yeah.

Brendan Torazzi
And so that was like, your inspector in the what the naughties was, like late 90s.

Unknown Speaker
Yeah, well, so in no early 90s, I, I pretty got pretty well got to the point where I felt in myself that I was getting a bit style in, in the air every day, same old same old situation at the training, but it was right into work health and safety. And there was an opportunity to throw my hat in and become an inspector. So I was fortunate there that I got that job. There was a dozen of us in the entire thing. Down back. We were trained up through Work Health and Safety Queensland 26 weeks or so of training plus on the job training on the mentors, before we got our powers as inspectors. I was a an industrial inspector, to start with, so factories and all types of workplaces retail as well. And then I our, our office was that the language shopping centre and on nagging erode in Brisbane, and there were some refurb being done and input. As I was walking from the car park, I walked past all of these construction workers and put it put it mildly, they were not complying with their obligations for safety. The public were exposed to risk. So as an inspector, I couldn't walk past without saying something. So I addressed that. And as a result of that, I was flagged to move into the construction team. And again, on the mentor of Stewie Rosen Lund, he was the senior construction inspector at the time. He mentored me with regards to anything and everything to do with construction. And I ended up becoming a construction inspector. And then in 2003, I came to Canberra and started as a test inspector with ICT WorkCover. In the construction team there, I then became the manager of development and operational policy, and try and all the inspectors we've put in place. The diploma of government workplace safety inspections, put a training programme together, because they had their training background and trained all the inspectors so that they would be aligned to the training requirements of other inspectors around Australia. I was the ICT representative of the national workplace inspector training and development reference group. So that was to do with development, developmental training for all inspectors in Australia wide. So we were all on the same page basically.

Brendan Torazzi
So was back in 2003, or around that time did by ICT in my mind now a real like as far as regulation and innovation that they're leading the leading the way in Australia was at the same back then like the what you've just described here about putting together a training programme that would put everyone on the same, or the inspectors on the same page. Was that kind of a bit of an innovation back then?

Unknown Speaker
I think so. With all due respect to the inspectors, current inspectors and those that have gone in the past. There was a lot that they had to deal with in the ICT so for example, when a when I came to ICT WorkCover I was appointed as an inspector under the scaffold and lifts act and regulations of 1957 the machinery act of 1949. Yeah, and everything was really behind the times with in that respect. So

Brendan Torazzi
we use kind of handcuffed in a way by whatever the legislation of the time is. So something might not be safe, but the legislation hasn't caught up. So you can't Yeah,

Unknown Speaker
there was all sorts of issues. So for example, in the ICT on a construction workplace, say, for example, working at heights, the requirement was to manage the risk associated with a fall if a person was working at six feet or higher. So everywhere else that was 2.5 2.7, in Queensland, two metres in the AC in New South Wales, and the AC T sitting as an island within New South Wales had a six foot rule. So that transferred to 1.8 metres. But it was still different to what was going on around the country. But ICT bought out new work health and safety legislation or the new Occupational Health and Safety Act. Look, I can't remember exactly when, what the date of that was, was somewhere around about 2004 Correct me if I'm wrong, but it was around there. And they changed the legislation to your head to control the risks associated with a fall from any height if it was reasonable that a person or likely that a person could be injured. So that was that was leading the way in that respect. So though, ACTA was very good with that,

Brendan Torazzi
like sounds like common sense prevailed?

Unknown Speaker
Yeah, yeah. And there was a lot of changes occurred, changes with regards to dangerous goods, hazardous substances, electrical, all sorts of things happen. And so that was a good time for all of the inspectors while they were going through doing their training to learn the act, learn all of the new methodologies, we bought a senior investigator down from animal and legal person down from Work Health and Safety Queensland, to assist with that training. So the inspectors all went through training on investigations, presenting evidence, all those sorts of things. We even had Hugh Selby, Elektra, law and a new put everybody through moot court. So they all were practised at presenting evidence and investigating incidents and putting together prosecution briefs etc. So, it was a very good training programme for everybody. They all the inspectorate was pretty much turned around. Then, then there was a shake up within the ICT government, and everybody moved the work ICT WorkCover moved under the Department of Justice and community safety logos changed. They relocated from a clips house in, in the CBD of Canberra out to Callum officers out at work. And it was around that time that the inspectors were really hitting the ground running. And they they had all been trained, they knew what they were doing. And we had good systems in place. So that's pretty much what happened then.

Brendan Torazzi
And this what you're describing Peter, it sounds like the perfect foundation for you then to start your own business in blue Tron. Yeah, that's right. Tell us so. So you, you've been it sounds like you'd had decades of experience in you know, training assessing out there dealing with the general public and what was safe what? Yeah, what what was the right way of working safely? So was that that all became the foundation of Lutron?

Unknown Speaker
Yeah, pretty much. I'd also done a lot of work in the mining sector. I've been all over. We're training and working in New Guinea, all around the place. So yeah, what happened was in the ICT, we had the fireworks so we still have fireworks were legal in the ICT and at around 2006 The any complaints with regards to fireworks were sent through to were dealt with by ICT WorkCover and I had only just finished up getting the inspector, the team of inspectors, I was the manager of workplace safety inspections. So WorkCover was asked leading into workplace safety. There was also process prosecutions and licencing. So that's how WorkCover was restructured. And so I was in charge of all of the inspectors. And I had had just finished up and I on a job, and I just went to stopped off at the club to have a couple of beers on the way home. So before I go home, so thing and end up having a heart attack. So the doctor told me that. So here's the lesson for everybody. If you get chest pains, make sure you go and do something about it. Because time is, is his heart muscle. So if I had been at home, I probably would lay down on the lounge and die.

Brendan Torazzi
No matter how I would, how will you pay to win that that happened? I was 46 as pretty young. Right? And so yeah, that would have been a big shock.

Unknown Speaker
Yeah, it was, look, diet, I was a smoker, Xander a lot. Like my job was a stressful job. But I wasn't really not dealing with it, if you understand what I mean there. So everything was all good. And I was just silent along blindly. Funny thing is that my team, we took on a work place health challenge. And we had these specialists come in, and we all did fit tests and the light or fitness tests. And then they measured our, our body age, a couple of weeks later, and they actually presented me with a trophy because I actually lowered my body age for 10 years. And it was remarkable in their eyes, I ended up having to go and do a, an interview on Channel Seven. To talk about all of this, and the very next day, I had the heart attack. So that was was ironic. But coming through cardiac rehab. So I guess when it comes to that sort of stuff, I've had a lived experience there as well. So when I was going through cardiac rehab, the doctors at all the specialist said, I need to slow down, do something different. And so given that I'd had all of this background I I was sort of like lost as to what I was going to do, where I was going to start, and are still quite focused on my health and safety journey. And I'm still committed to health and safety in the workplace. So I started up blue Tron as a work health and safety consulting business. And it's funny how everything sort of turns full circle, because that's what I'm doing again now. So in the early days, I guess it was a bit of a slow start, because the people that knew who I was probably weren't wanting to do business with the guy that just issued them with a with a fine or an infringement penalty of some sort. So I have an understanding or I'm aware that there's quite a lot of people in the region that know who I am based on my background. And if not, from my new app, their new enterprise a blue Tron. So blue Tron started up with as a work health and safety consulting business. But things were a little quiet. And there was a lot of things that I wanted to address in the training space. So for example, verification of competency, and so

Brendan Torazzi
on. So we use the word Where did that term come from? Was that something that you came up with? Or?

Unknown Speaker
I think it was a loose, loose sort of a term I think that it really sort of had its firm beginnings. I had I gave a presentation at the safety show in Homebush Bay Sydney many years ago now on the concept of verifying competency of workers Under due diligence requirements of the work health and safety legislation, voc or as we generally shorten it to verification of competency is something that's been around since since the beginnings of man, I'd imagine. If you think about it, a parent wouldn't let their child do something unsupervised until that parent was able to verify in their own mind that the child was competent to do the do the activity. So that actually

Brendan Torazzi
changed under the WHS act, didn't it? Because there's some tell us about the the requirement within the act if you're a PCBU.

Unknown Speaker
Yeah, well, the Work Health and Safety Act says current act that we have, so a lot of your listeners would be aware that WHS legislation was harmonised in 2012. Well, the legislation was signed off as Work Health and Safety Act of 2011. And the regulations of 2011. May came in force on the first debate, first of January 2012. So in essence, the legislation was harmonised. So it was standardised Australia wide on the first of January 2012. Now that was with the exception of Victoria and Western Australia, and they had their own reasons for that. As we stand the current WHS act and regulations, the same Commonwealth as they are, in all the other jurisdictions with the exception of Victoria and Western Australia, now in legislation, there is obligations for well, the legislation sets out obligations for our safety duties for obligation holders, the change from employer employee to a PCBU, which is the person conducting a business or undertaking, so that has wide implications there. The other thing is that there are specific duties in under the legislation for officers, a lot of people find it a little bit hard to get their head around that. But under the new legislation, the ACT binds the crown. So what that means is, prior to that legislation, government couldn't really prosecute itself, the relevant minister would probably be put on notice if there was anything going on there. But generally, the government couldn't prosecute itself. So now under this legislation act, finds a crown and it can. So now we're looking at officers. So officers will could be people within a government organisation that sign off on something. It could also and definitely will be directors of companies, anyone that has to any extent, level of control of what happens within within the business, or officers. So officers have to have to use they have a obligation for due diligence. That is to make sure that all of their decisions are not only under the Corporations Act 2001 for a director, but I'm aware of health and safety legislation. They've got due diligence obligations there.

Brendan Torazzi
So what that means in practical terms is like I know a lot of the VOCs you do around plant and equipment like I don't know, forklifts and excavators and stuff like that. So it's not just enough for someone to turn up with a licence saying I can drive an excavator that companies should be really verifying. Yeah. Even though they get a licence, they need to independently verify that they can do what? Yeah, thankfully, yeah.

Unknown Speaker
Yeah. So we also had have mine safety legislation, and your viewers or your listeners could appreciate that, that mine sites find a dangerous site especially, for example, combustible gases or dusters in a coal mine. Anyway, the implications of safety far reaching on a mine site. So the Mine Safety legislation and pretty much requires that the sites are intrinsically safe. And so the mining sector or as you say, if you turn it up with a licence You wouldn't be allowed to operate any piece of plant or equipment, even if you did have a licence on a mine site without somebody putting you through some sort of a challenge test and a demonstration of your practical operating skills. So

Brendan Torazzi
where you're mainly working with the VOCs in mining, or what other industries sort of doing this as best practice?

Unknown Speaker
Well, look, I think VOCs as best practice have been around for a long time. So for example, Department of Defence, you know, they do their own training, their own assessments and their own decisions as to whether or not somebody you're allowed to fire a weapon or you know, operator drive a tank, or whatever it happens to be. So you've also got the aviation industry was is a really good example there where pilots have to go in and do sim flight simulators. Given all sorts of scenarios, they have to demonstrate their competencies there. So it's not just me. If you go, if you think about, say, a lot of people say, Well, you know, why do we need to have this? And if you think, say, for example, a person that starts work as a receptionist in an office, if they pick up the phone, and they don't answer the phone, the way that the enterprise wants them to get a gallon sort of thing, what what can I do your for today, as opposed to thank you, thank you for your call, how may I assist you, etc? Then an enterprise or a business might turn around say, Well, look, we don't want you answering the phones yet until you answer the phones in the way that we would like you to answer the phone. So they would probably have a subject matter expert, somebody that is experienced in that role to then mentor or train that receptionist to answer the phone properly. And when they verify that they're competent, then they would let them do that. Yeah. Now, some people have said, well, you need to have you had need to go through a registered training organisation for a voc or verification of competency. Well, I wouldn't expect that a business would send their their new office person away to nationally recognised qualification just so that they can answer the phone. And even if they did, they wouldn't be answering the phone in the way that the business wants them to answer it. So they have to have some training or evidence of competency assessment based on the business's needs. Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah. So it can be far reaching. In 2005. Somewhere around there. There was a national discussion about a new code of practice that was coming, it was going to be released and that actually has been released. It's a it's a national Code of Practice for licencing persons performing high risk work. And in essence, prior to that, we had what they call OHS certification system. So it was a national certification system for people operating plant and equipment. So forklifts, cranes, performing, erecting and dismantling scaffold, dogging rigging, operating load, shifting equipment, excavators, bulldozers, bobcats, back is funding live,

Brendan Torazzi
anything, anything that can do serious damage in pretty much

Unknown Speaker
what what happened was the in that that code of practice came out and in that code of practice, it states there that that irrespective of a person having a licence, they're still the due diligence obligation to ensure that they are competent. So there's this voc stuff starting to come in there. And now what happened was when Australia transition to the national licencing of persons performing high risk work, all of the load shifting classes were they except the exception of the two forklift licences, forklift truck and order picking forklift truck. They were all of the other classes were not recognised as high risk for the purposes of licencing. So what happened then was that people They were operating a bobcat, a backhoe, an excavator, a bulldozer, a roll, scraper, all those types of plant which were classed as load shifting equipment. There was now no licence so you couldn't get a high risk work licence for that. So what happened was blue Tron. We developed we were already doing verification competency. A lot of Voc work that we were doing was just generally refresher training and skills, assessments of people. But we then know or identified that there was a gap there with regards to persons operating load shifting equipment, and also all of the nationally recognised assessors for load shifting equipment. If those people only specialised in the in conducting assessments for excavators backhoe as Bobcat civil construction plan, if they if that was their their business, all of a sudden that was taken away from them by the government, because there was now no licences. So what we did was threw out a bit of a safety net for everybody to come on board with blue Tron and conduct vasd assessments, the same as if they were still doing the licence, assess next. Yep. Now, we then issue the card as evidence of that training. So for people that were coming into industry with nothing, then we gave them something and they were being assessed by the same assessors that would have given them the the national OHS certification, yeah, their lathe, sorry, sorry, Lal al SLE, Lz, et cetera. So we've put in place a robust assessment system for everybody. All the assessors all have to meet the same requirements as if they were an assessor on the regulator. And if you think about it, the regulator would have created the assessors to issue the national certification system. But they were managed by a an office worker within the public service that was given that role. Whereas what we our system was was was managed by qualified assessors, qualified operators, qualified trainers, and overseen by an X inspector from two jurisdictions. So that was sort of the level that we had had with it. And we had there was a large project, the Wheatstone project in WA and LNG project, which was actually run by Bechtel for Chevron, and Bechtel sent their safety manager to us and he ordered our system and he liked it. And blue Tron was the third the only private, non RTO that was accredited by Bechtel to deliver the OSI assessments. Now, for that project, there were only five. The other four were registered training organisations. So at the time, we were doing VOCs on all sorts of things. We're developing assessment. Instruments based on legislation, manufacturers information, codes of practice, for things like line trimmers or whippersnappers ride on lawn mowers. You and I met, we had assessment instruments developed for all sorts of things. And all of the assessors all had to have an assessor qualification and relevant industry experience. If they didn't have that, then they would at least have to conduct assessments and the inner in consultation with a subject matter

Brendan Torazzi
expert. Yeah. So it sounds like in some ways, the blue Tron system was more rigorous than some of the audio stuff. Yes,

Unknown Speaker
well, definitely, in some ways it was. So I can remember. There were other players We're coming in to do VOCs. And from my mind, because I'm focused on workplace safety, the more the merrier in in that respect. But generally, blue Tron held the high ground from a military perspective. And so what what it was about was from steering blue Tron, it was always looking for another hill to hold, and more high ground to, to find and sit on. So it's constantly evolving. And there's some new changes in play with regards to the way that VOCs are being done. And that's a lot to do with COVID. And those problems that we've now come to deal with with a pandemic. So isolation, social distancing, et cetera. So we're taking advantage of more technology for that.

Brendan Torazzi
That's great. Well, better our time has come to an end. Thank you so much for sharing your health and safety story. If people want to find out more about Blue Tron, what's your website?

Unknown Speaker
Blue Tron is WWW dot blue tron.com.au. Blue Tron started as a consulting business and then focused on the VOC and the training. So now, that consulting aspect is now under a new entity monitor workplace safety, Proprietary Limited. Email is Peter at monitor safety.com.au. And the website is in the process of being developed, but it'll be WWW dot monitor safety.com.au I think

Brendan Torazzi
that's that's fantastic. Okay, Peter, thanks very much for coming on the show.

Unknown Speaker
Thanks, Brandon. Thanks, everyone.

Unknown Speaker
You've been listening to an ihs.com.au production.

Brendan Torazzi
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