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TRANSCRIPT
Brendan Torazzi
This is a Sydney video production Welcome to Episode 35 of the Australian Health and Safety Business Podcast. I'm Brendan Torazzi, the host of the show, and today I'm joined by James Ritchie, who is the director and Principal Consultant of mindful risk. Good morning, James. Good afternoon, I should say. Yeah.
Unknown Speaker
Good afternoon, Brandon, how are you?
Brendan Torazzi
Thanks for joining us on the show today. So I'm always curious to hear people like, on the show, I get different people how they've arrived at health and safety. How did you first get involved with the world of health and safety?
Unknown Speaker
Yeah, it's a funny one. I mean, the the funny part I fell is that I was never really that interested in health and safety, I was actually always more interested in big boys toys, so sort of trucks, you know, trucks, boats, planes, mining, machinery, all that sort of boyhood fantasy stuff. And that interests led me a little bit by default, to work health and safety. Came out of high school, and I didn't really know what to do at uni. So just went and did like a generalist Environmental Science degree. And then flipped around doing some odd jobs in some workplaces, and settled in enjoy. And so kind of just went traveling and surfing all over Indonesia, and being a silly, silly young pup. And then when I came back from that experience, there was I think there was an ad in the paper one Saturday that was for biosecurity and customers and customs. Just saying, if you've got any degree just come in and apply to us to become a like an insect of the customers.
Brendan Torazzi
Okay, so that was a government.
Unknown Speaker
Yeah, yeah. Commonwealth government, I think they've now split them into borders, advice, security, and border security or something like that. But at the time, that was customs and quarantine, you know, bind it up in a quarantine side of that biosecurity regulator, which then is effectively like a traineeship or a graduate program.
Brendan Torazzi
And so what you would have that been James
Unknown Speaker
19 are probably about 2003. Okay.
Brendan Torazzi
And so that was kind of like the, the, kind of the first job out of uni, serious job, would you say?
Unknown Speaker
Yeah, yeah, the first the first big boy job.
Brendan Torazzi
And so how long did you spend with the Commonwealth doing that? And I guess, what were the lessons that you learned from that role that you've taken on? Yeah, yeah. So
Unknown Speaker
look, it was probably Yeah, it was ended up being well over well over five years. And so I've got I've got a broad mix of exposure to, you know, working, working on the land side and the air side of the airport, doing passenger clearances, and then spent a lot of time around Port botany. Doing vessel clearances, and food inspections, and all sorts of things like that. Not I enjoyed it for a time. But that back end of that period, there was a, there was a training and safety officer role came up, and I just looked at it as a career development opportunity. So you know, grabbed it with grabbed it with both hands. And that's probably what first got me a taste of that, let's call it side from that compliance side that I was dealing with as a regulator. That's what got me introduced to this concept of OHS at the time through that role.
Brendan Torazzi
And did you do you think that the or the background of what you did at uni actually helped? Like it did obviously, help you get the job in the first place was, but was there a practical application of the knowledge that you'd learnt in tertiary education? You know, actually on the field, so to
Unknown Speaker
speak? Yeah, depends how blunt you want me to be printed. I kind of feel like probably the like the short and the long answer is no. Like my degree taught me probably zero vocational skills are taught taught me a lot of great theory around certainly, environmental management models and things like that, that I actually probably still use and apply many years, many years later in my own business, but it was probably more just the if anything, if I could pin it down to it to be critical thinking yeah, that's probably what I took away from it and inquisitiveness if that Robert Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. And so I think that's probably what then I applied and the fact that you know, I'm a bit of a extroverted type person that enjoys just hanging around other people and getting to know other people. I think a lot of what I got the success out of in that government gig was just an inability to build relationships with people and understand their problems and try and help
Brendan Torazzi
them so were you dealing with kind of, I guess, consumers, so to speak, like people arriving just from overseas or
Unknown Speaker
Yeah, a bit of a mixture, so I ended up Yeah, I kind of work when you work in those government sector roles in the likeness regulatory agencies, they do like compulsory rotations. And so you do you do six months at the airport, you do a couple of years at Port body doing different, different things. And then ultimately, where I landed was predominantly a what would you call it? Like a, I guess, regulated and Business program where I only exclusively dealt with small business owners who were importing packaged food products into Australia.
Brendan Torazzi
Yep. Yep. Sounds like a fantastic training ground really, like you would have seen so many different things happening and different every day, I'd imagine.
Unknown Speaker
Yeah. Oh, look, it was yeah, good to meet with a really good bunch of people. I feel like there's I'm still friendly with a few. You know, a few of my colleagues from that era, and suddenly got exposed to a lot of different. Yeah, pretty diverse bunch of people and perspectives and everything. So that I enjoyed it. And I got plenty of funny, funny stories, most of which I probably wouldn't want to share in this content.
Brendan Torazzi
Fair enough. And so from there, you health and safety role came up and you sort of went sideways into that. Was that for the department as well? Or?
Unknown Speaker
Yeah, yeah, that's where I started. And then at the same time, I was starting to, you know, put my put myself out there a little bit to see what else I could, what else I could gather in terms of skills. And then I think through the advice of a good friend and a lady that worked in recruitment, she suggested that it just be a good augmentation to look at doing some sort of formal study in OHS because might I might start to open some more career pathways. So that's, that's kind of the point. Which I went back to uni or take on? Yeah, we're just went to TAFE to do the Advanced Diploma. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And that was, again, that was a great, great experience. I feel really lucky that I had some great, great TAFE teachers that were from really different types of businesses that I hadn't been exposed to, like hospitality. Events Management, it's I feel like that was that was a good experience. Poor, I'll take that. It's a bit of a bad rap at times. But I had a great experience learning.
Brendan Torazzi
Look, I think the thing at TAFE is that you're definitely going to get proper training like in Jepson. I mean, some of the some of the private RTOS going around, you know, they're smashing out cert fours and diplomas and five days, and you just you just don't get how you can, you can really integrate all that knowledge so quickly. It needs to be done over time.
Unknown Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. And I think yeah, exactly what you said is what I felt TAFE gave me a good experience. Sorry, a good exposure to and there was also a lot of people from other industries like construction that were already working in, predominately like WHS officer roles. And so it's, it's good
Brendan Torazzi
to be around that. That. Yeah, cohort 100%. And then you sort of, I guess, unlike uni, or unlike some courses, I guess at uni, you're getting real life intersected with the theory, so then you can start applying it? Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And so, how long did the tape course go for?
Unknown Speaker
I think just I think it's a year and a half or nearly. Yeah, I think that's a year. If you add it all up, it ends up being a year and a half.
Brendan Torazzi
Okay. Okay. Yeah. And so from there, what happened next?
Unknown Speaker
Well, so then just started putting the feelers out while I was still studying, and that was getting, that would have been around 2008 2009. So then, at the time, at least, there was a lot of mining graduate programs on offer and ended up landing myself a star in the, one of the big mining houses, health, safety and environment, graduate programs. And that was, that was a big win. And then my wife and I had to make the decision of upping and leaving the northern beaches of Sydney and heading off into the absolute sticks of Queensland and Western New South Wales and other places like that. And that's kind of what we did for a couple of years while I was doing that graduate program and a big animal to not experience or probably would have necessarily volunteered for at the start, but ended up being really rewarding experience and ultimately set set me on the pathway to where I am today.
Brendan Torazzi
All right, well, that's probably a good segue. So what does what does mindful risk do? I'm taking it you've got your own your own business now. So you Yeah, what made you arrive at at deciding to go out on your own?
Unknown Speaker
Oh, look, I think a few a few different factors carnival aligned, aligned at once Brendan, but I remember don't want to get all yogic and philosophical and I know I mean, good company in that respect, but certainly I thought After, after a pretty good career in mining, I was starting to get over the stress and the 24 hour cycles. And by that stage, so 2008 till about 2015. I've gotten a lot of experience in underground, right, like underground coal and open cut coal. So certainly be commanding a good role, but certainly really not enjoying it as much as what I thought I was expecting to. Had one had one kid and the second one on the way, and I think it was decided that it was time to make a change. And then ultimately, I think, because I'm been a super cancer for my whole life, had fiddled around with things like yoga and meditation in my 20s, and kind of went back to him. And that probably had a had an element of how it played into me deciding that look, I think, you know, quote, quality of life, and certainly quality of work, and the people I get to work with was something that I really valued, as well as being, you know, really making a contribution to the community. So I think, yeah, a few different factors or kind of lined up together. And I decided that it wasn't really about making a choice, I decided it wasn't the only choice that quite had to make.
Brendan Torazzi
So So what does mindful risk do?
Unknown Speaker
Yeah, I sarcastically or, you know, humorously like to say that we're we're in the business of executive confidence building and stress reduction, I think in, in, in a nutshell. But yes, there will be essentially. So yeah, over the years, I've moved a little bit more broadly, in in that mining career outside of just WHS and environment, and has become very interested in that board level strategic enterprise risk and enterprise governance. And so I ended up going back to uni again, this time to the governance Institute to study applied risk management. And so that again, that was felt like a natural kind of augmentation between WHS environment into this, let's call this business wide approach to risks and other categories of risks that are just WHS or environment. And so yeah, yeah, mindful risk as the business that's essentially what what we we predominantly work with boards of directors, owners of companies in very specific niche sectors, and also internal risk and compliance functions within businesses like mining companies and aged care facilities, and even insolvency, boutique insolvency accountants to help them manage internal risk systems and enterprise level.
Brendan Torazzi
So So is it like coaching other individuals on boards? Or is it more about looking at, you know, this whole system and working out where the potential issues may be or potential risks? Maybe?
Unknown Speaker
Yeah, look, it's more it's yes. And yes, so it's where we're really focused on internal capability building. But with that, obviously, comes an element of processing system development. So internal processing, system development is something that we work extensively with them on but because obviously, those systems are only as good as the people that use them. We also like to work at that advisory and coaching level with directors, on boards, and certainly owners and businesses in their certain sectors to help them understand and better frame their knowledge of risk and risk management into something that's certainly not just not just a compliance tool, and not just one I think they call the handbrake to happiness. And say, Yeah, does that. Yeah, it's one of those things that it's it's evolved from very much being a traditional in inverted commas consulting model. Yeah. Now, we're certainly very much in the space of what we call research, and advisory. And so that that includes, you know, thought leadership and all that we're just thinking cringe even saying it because they're like the most overused word in the 21st century, but yes, research and advisory. And so in terms of what what that ends up being. Yeah, predominantly, or particularly, we're interested in working in companies at that meaty size in highly regulated sectors. So that's why I said, you know, insolvency accounts in aged care not for profit mining mining services, where the businesses are big enough to have certainly a wide range of complexity, exposure to risk, but they're probably not big enough to understand or even handle resources or the need to appoint an internal risk and compliance function. We we effectively, depending on the circumstance, provide that service. So comms today comes from everything from risk fundamentals workshops that we provide for the directors through to the development of internal systems, and processes and ultimately behaviors and culture for Have the organization and it's really it's really just those were quite, quite specific about the nations we work with. Because I guess that comes from myself and in the team, my professional development, and also the areas that we feel our skills are best at helping people solve the unique problems that they have.
Brendan Torazzi
So as far as headcount, what sort of size would that, you know, that target that you're working with up to, from what headcount through to, like on a lower level through to a higher level? Is it like 500 to 5000? People or?
Unknown Speaker
Yeah, so we're, we sort of break it down in terms of revenue, Brendan, so it's more, we would probably say, ideally, we don't tend to work with organizations that are less than about 15 mil gross revenue for your turnover. And it's rare for us to probably be working with organizations that are above 200 million gross revenue. So where that where that kneecap, meaty provider, and that just comes from experience and research they're looking at we, we know that if you're over 200 million gross revenue a year, you're going to probably have a chief risk officer, and you're certainly going to have some sort of in any internal compliance function. And particularly if you're, if you're in a APRA regulated sector, or a sector, like mining, where you've got a very, you know, aggressive regulator, then you probably are going to already have that in place. Whereas where we're certainly we really like to help businesses that are in that growth phase or in that boutique size, because obviously, they've still got very direct touch with their business and their customers and their staff. And because we're all pretty people oriented people that that's what we enjoy, because we enjoy building connection and community with those businesses.
Brendan Torazzi
And would you necessarily run into like other people providing I don't know, other consultants working with those businesses as well, like maybe in different niches or?
Unknown Speaker
Yep. We in what way? Do you mean other other?
Brendan Torazzi
Like, say they had a WHS person come in, and you would work with it effectively, a team of consultants to help business? So do they tend to sort of just because it sounds like you're the overarching view of the business, right? It's, so there's multiple different risks within a business. I was just curious to see what what businesses are doing, whether they you know, getting an army of different consultants, or do they specialize in specializing in just yet one or two firms? And, yeah, from the Yeah,
Unknown Speaker
yeah. Okay. All I think because we still certainly that, particularly with our mining clients, we still certainly provide that, WHS and environment expertise, and that that remains part of our core core speciality. And you know, that, that that will include right up to, you know, as preparing and assisting them with doing their returns, if they're like an EPA, like subject with EPO or EPA regulation entity, but where we, where we predominantly were, is in that, let's call it that enterprise risk space. And that's, I guess, the benefit of having a team of four, including myself is that we can offer, let's call it that supporting advisory services through WHS or environment. And then where I where I really like to work is that that, let's call it that enterprise of that business wide.
Brendan Torazzi
I guess it makes you incredibly agile as well, having a small team where you can sort of get in and actually there's actually make the chat or recommend the changes that need to be made, as opposed to say bigger companies where there's other layers more bureaucracy,
Unknown Speaker
so to speak. So yeah, yeah, well, look, I mean, yeah, didn't didn't want to turn it into any sort of a sales pitch. But
Brendan Torazzi
yeah, just trying to try to get it get a feel for where, where the work has been done. So. But yeah, you've got you've got a bit of a twist, though. James, on on. What you do also, like you had a did it? Was it right? They had like, a charitable end, or there was some kind of social purpose connection there to tell us about what that's about? Yeah.
Unknown Speaker
Yeah, yeah, sure. Okay. Yeah. Well, I guess, I know, because I know your background, Brendan, and you're a bit of a meditative person, if that's even the right. right word. I guess it came? Yeah. Because, you know, probably, I would say a lot of small business owners. And, you know, a lot of high flying individuals tend to be those very, you know, driven. What do they call like, Type A personalities. And that was certainly me through most of my 20s as well. And then yeah, just having having children and having, I guess reevaluating your priorities in life, and certainly, I wouldn't say getting involved with that. Let's call it that yogic space. Certainly, all of a sudden, I found that for someone that traditionally didn't have that much empathy all of a sudden was like, Oh, wow, actually start to care about stuff now and I feel kind of compelled to do something more than just try and chase you know, more money and more, sort of, you know, Superior roles or whatever, and so that probably where it all started for me was, again, just being a surfer. I started getting involved locally in the hunter with the disabled surfers Association about probably nine or 10 years ago. Yeah. And so that that's a they're a national organization, they've got branches in Sydney in every state, really, I think they run a huge day in Colorado every year. And if you've ever come across it,
Brendan Torazzi
Brendan bar No, I haven't. But
Unknown Speaker
yeah, started getting invited, started getting involved in that. And I guess I realized through getting in getting to know the people and the families that were our part of that community, volunteers and participants just sort of naturally started to fall into conversations about the different, you know, the different ways that they were trying to support either their children or the people that they cared for, that might have had disabilities. And it turned out that ultimately, depending on how the funding structured under the National Disability Insurance Scheme, that there's opportunities or options there for people that have certain requirements that maybe need my skills in terms of risk management and governance, helping them develop policies around things like social media, and even work health and safety. And so started supporting some of those families doing that voluntarily. And then that I guess everything kind of just started to fold outwards, from there in terms of ended up as the Secretary and that organization, disabled surface Hunter, and I've been been a secretary for about six years or seven years now. And then that led on to some voluntary board positions. And then I think these days, we continue as at a at a commercial level through mindful risk or support, or we support a couple of local nonprofits in terms of their board, enterprise risk and governance systems. And then we also volunteer our time in a couple of different ways in that same space. And then yeah, I was previously on a board with a nonprofit that has since been merged into a much larger national entity. And I mean, that's a conversation for another day about the whole NDIS thing. But yes, I think that's that's kind of the story behind that. But what I guess what I was surprised when I started going into that space that I didn't expect was that I thought I, you know, are winning with the mindset of I'm just doing some community service here, because a little bit of like, oh, that's what you do. That's what you're supposed to do to be a good citizen. But what I realized was, I started getting so much back out of it myself so much, just enjoyment and joy. I couldn't help but not want me to continue to do that.
Brendan Torazzi
Yeah, I think I think it's definitely a different feeling. When you do work without the expectation of getting paid. With money, you do get a huge amount of satisfaction from it.
Unknown Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. And I think that there's something about the whole psychology of again, you don't do it for work, but certainly opportunities have come out of that. But I think yeah, the intent, when I know that I'm going into work with a family that I can directly apply my skills and see the benefit that those skills can bring to, you know, the quality and independence. I started quality of life and independence and somebody with a disability than that. Yeah. I think that's amazing. So
Brendan Torazzi
for sure. Okay. Well, thank you so much for sharing your journey. It's always like, I don't think I've met anybody that you know, everybody's got a different story. So it's really cool to see, you know, how people end up doing what they're doing. Now, we've got just five quick questions to ask you before we wrap up. The first one is How old are you? 37. And what do you like to do to keep fit? I think I might know the answer to this. But
Unknown Speaker
yeah, so surfing dirt bikes and yoga.
Brendan Torazzi
Yep. Cool. And next question, um, if you could be remembered for one thing in business, what do you think that would be?
Unknown Speaker
Efficiency. Is that really lame, but that's what I feel like.
Brendan Torazzi
Yeah. And do you have any personal goals that you're looking to achieve in the next 12 months?
Unknown Speaker
Yeah, look, I think just getting the business growth, growing the business somewhat, but making it sustainable over the long term in terms of its structure and foundation and operating model. That's certainly the goal and spending spending as much time caravanning and surfing with my son and daughter as I possibly can.
Brendan Torazzi
That's That sounds great. And then finally, what do you think you subscribe more to as far as running a business goes is a long game or a short game.
Unknown Speaker
I'm playing I'm playing for the 20 year when Brennan
Brendan Torazzi
that's awesome. Okay, now People want to connect with you, James. What's your website?
Unknown Speaker
Yeah, sure, it's my mindful risk or one word.com.au And I'm on LinkedIn and Instagram and Facebook.
Brendan Torazzi
Right. All right, James, thanks for coming on the show today.
Unknown Speaker
I really appreciate your time. Brandon, thanks for the opportunity. Great.