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TRANSCRIPT
Aaron Schultz
This is an ohs.com.au production
Brendan Torazzi
Welcome to Episode 61 of the Australian Health and Safety Business Podcast. I'm Brendan Torazzi, the host of the show and today I'm with Aaron shorts from Outback mind foundation. Good morning, Aaron, how are you?
Aaron Schultz
Very well, mate. How are you?
Brendan Torazzi
Great. Great. It's good to have you on the show. So you were just saying that your Outback mind is is it recently become a charity or is it a foundation? Or tell us a bit about what you're doing?
Aaron Schultz
Yeah, basically, it's a health health promotion charity, pretty much set up to support men's mental health in regional Australia started it back more than 2019 When I was back in Victoria, there were lots of issues there with men's mental health Malsu. So it was sort of start to do a few things. But previous to that I didn't Tasmania, I've managed male dominated workforces for pretty much my whole life. And I've seen lots of lots of battles with guys over the years, I was doing some men's stuff, and I was back in Tassie, sort of, you know, some mental well being stuff. But going back about 20 years, working in that space, I noticed that a lot of employees put a lot of emphasis on health and safety, but I didn't put a lot on that on the well being of their people. So I decided back then that something needed to be done and suddenly sort of chipped away at doing my bit to be able to support men's mental health in the workplace, but also outside the workplace as well.
Brendan Torazzi
So how do you get started with something like that? Like, what's the first step? Because, I mean, typically, it's a stereotype but guys, I guess generally find it a bit harder to open up about, you know, more emotional or mental well being, how do you how do you get started? And and what's the appetite, like, from your cohorts that you go through your program?
Aaron Schultz
Yeah, mate. Really interesting question. Bryce from 15 to 85, you know, primarily that the come and get a hands. I, you know, I've been really lucky because I've, I've worked across all different demographics, all different levels of socio economic platform. I've worked with guys in prisons before previously, I've one of the one of the big biggest things that I did was actually learn mindfulness practices, but also your meditation in yoga, so it'd be able to sort of help guys de escalate primarily. So you know, to be able to, you know, help help help them use their bodies to be able to settle their mind, I think it's really key, you know, we've got to prepare ourselves for good mental health, we just don't, don't expect that, you know, we've got to actually do some work to be able to keep ourselves balanced above the shoulders, I believe, and depending on, you know, the circumstances and traumas and so forth, that people have been through on their journey, just to find compassion for that and be able to, you know, help them be able to make some progress and build some stability, and I suppose some routine in their lives, it's really key that said, that doesn't discriminate across any age, you know, the things we need to do as guys, you know, every day will help keep us balanced and grounded, I really believe that, you know, particularly in modern society, because we've become so stimulated,
Brendan Torazzi
yeah, like my view is, is that most people get the need to be physically healthy, like, you know, go to the gym, do exercise with them, because you can't see the mental stuff, often it gets ignored. And so it's just equally as important, as you're saying, to be doing a little bit every day to keep your mental health.
Aaron Schultz
For sure, absolutely made sense. You know, you look at the workplace too, I'm trying to do what I can to be able to encourage employers to put more into the well being of their people. With with yoga, I've been really lucky with regards to work that's, that's been able to do to my body, but I've been able to sort of help a lot of guys, you know, correct things within themselves. But what what's really important is the injury, Injury Prevention side of things. So you know, you go to work and you're not getting prepared for work physically and mentally. Like, if we can spend 10 minutes to be able to prepare a team in their toolbox to be able to help them get out in the workplace more balanced, then the risk of physical and psychological injuries reduced significantly, I think. So this is where we've got to start to turn the corner. It's something I'm really passionate about.
Brendan Torazzi
And so what was your, I guess, juncture point that sort of made you go down this road? Typically, I see there's something that's maybe happened earlier in your life that inspired you to to give back. So was there something that happened to you personally, or?
Aaron Schultz
Yeah, like there was wake up calls a lot along the years, through the years like between 2000 and say, one and 2009. climbing the corporate ladder and just chasing and thinking that happiness come from the amount of money I was earning and the level of roles that I had. And so I was made redundant a couple of times through that period. And in 2008, I think it was I was made redundant, I felt totally flat. You know, there's no psychological care from the employer, there was a bit of a, you know, a rollout of redundancies throughout the country. And, and I'd made this company or a lot of money, put a lot of my heart and soul into it, and was just a phone call, which is what we're doing, see you later. And, you know, I was just left slight feeling totally, totally lost, went home to my wife, and didn't really get a lot of support. And I just felt like I, the only thing I could do is take my life, you know, so. So basically, you know, thankfully, that never happened. But one thing that did occur was I went to the GP and the GP said, to me, this was way better formula health was a thing. So you can do two things, you can take tablets, or exercise. So I chose to start moving my body and started to push myself through things. And that helped me and primarily, you know, I was very lucky to have a GP for January option, because a lot of us put you on pills, and it's not the right way to go, I think we can do some really good things. As humans to be able to self regulate with, it's got to have the right guidance. That's what sort of got me more curious around what I could do to keep myself physically mentally well, but also what I can do that helped, I suppose encourage others to do the same.
Brendan Torazzi
So what does the Outback mind program look like at the moment? Is it is it a program? Or is it workshops? Or what What the What's the practical things? You do?
Aaron Schultz
Yeah, good question. It's evolving populates around workplace well being, so to be able to go in and do some education around it. So go in and speak about, you know, what, what is good physical and mental health to staff members. Also, what I want to do, which I'm starting to get more now on his domestic violence, education and prevention, so to be able to go in there and talk about this, you know, to male dominated work workforces, because we're all here in central Queensland, and throughout Queensland, you know, 70% of the prisons are full of people that have committed domestic violence offenses, and I don't think we're doing much on the pre ability side, we're doing a lot on the reactive side, you know, so when someone does something, we punish them that it's actually do something, which actually helps them be a little bit more aware of their emotions. And this is something that I'm really passionate about and specialize in is to be able to help guys learn how to, to self regulate. And if you do that, then the episodes of defenses aren't as aren't as relevant or as often. And that's something you don't want to do more and more of, into the future. That's for sure.
Brendan Torazzi
So with the workplaces that you're visiting, is there a pot of No, like a typical workplace that's open to this? Or are you finding that the, you know, I don't know, maybe the pandemics accelerated this as well, where employers know that, you know, that employees are hard to keep. And so you want you want to be looking after them to make sure that there's a reason to keep coming back?
Aaron Schultz
That's right. And, you know, to be honest with you, 95% of employers are still ambivalent, you know, they're only worried about productivity and so forth, and not really investing in this side of things. You know, I really believe that's got to change you've got to make your business transformational, rather than transactional to new businesses or transactional, fairly worried about, you know, giving people good, good dollars and thinking that's, that's everything, but it's not, there's no soul in that, you know, you got to be able to do something to actually show that you believe in and support an employee. That's really what we're missing in the workplace these days, I think, because, you know, that was there once upon a time, you know, in the 70s and 80s. Everyone was valued in the workplace, we seem to have lost that.
Brendan Torazzi
Hmm. And so you mentioned prisons, is that work that you're still doing or?
Aaron Schultz
Yeah, not anymore. Unfortunately, I chose to not be vaccinated and I couldn't go in after December but primarily my interest came in, in Tasmania, one of the guys that was employed by me went in went visited him. I was actually working as a health advisor with Tesla government so So to give you a bit of a snapshot I managed a male dominated workforce for long time had a strong interest in workplace well being the Tesla Tesla government employs me to look after the employee well being of their of their people. And a lot of them were, we're having, I suppose, episodes of stress. So to be able to do what I could put in It's benches in place to reduce that stress. And that was challenging because, you know, the surgeons all the way down to the cleaners had problems with regards to their workflow. So going into the prisons come from that I spoke to the governor of Brisbane prison in Hobart in a superbug going to take troll people and make them better people than what they were when they arise. So I've started to do a program around, you know, diet, exercise, meditation, you know, what it is that makes them feel good, what makes them happy, and give them a journey. So they can actually come out of prison with some skills to be able to be more, I suppose conscious of their decisions, and don't believe any of those guys be offended. A lot of the guys that go in, I think it's maybe 47% Go back. So that's where we've got a real job to do, as well. So, you know, prison might employ people for work, but there's so much more. So it might educate more people for work. But primarily, there's so much more we could do to be able to help them with their physical and mental health while they're in there, you know, but I was, I'm really interested in that, to be able to sort of help turn things around in that space as well. And mind you, you know, Brendan, the guards, and the guys that are working in that system are very, very stressed and anxious themselves, you know, so there's got to be work, from the correctional side of things to be able to look after their people otherwise, say, they lose them because they're stressed and anxious.
Brendan Torazzi
Yeah. When you think about it, prison is an ideal time to take up meditation or yoga you've got you probably have a bit of time, you've got a fair bit of solitude and, and self reflection as well. So it actually makes a lot of sense to use that as a foundational piece to help you while you're in and then potentially, you know, give you some skills once you leave.
Aaron Schultz
Absolutely, yes. And not to be able to go back to the old habits and the the old, old community that maybe, you know, it wasn't that supportive of you so, so yeah, to be able to help guys with that is, it's really key. It's worked in other countries and weather, it's sort of way behind the eight ball here in Australia. But I really believe, you know, I just think having these conversations that we're having today is important, because it actually like starts to raise the conversation with others out there. And people start to, you know, put some, some thought around, you know, this has been an opportunity to be able to transform people's lives rather than just keep them punished.
Brendan Torazzi
So, does mental wellness in the workplace? Does it start with government? Are they like, is that an employer that is receptive to this kind of work? Or are you finding this? I don't know, normally, there might be a specific sector that's more open to
Aaron Schultz
it. Yeah, make? Absolutely no, they're looking at mining and so forth, do their bit, but there's not really a lot. You know, there's working in that space, you know, a lot of band aid fixes. Yeah, productions sort of doing pretty well, but still a long way to go. So, yeah, look, you know, even even corporate world white collar world is stressing people out consistently. So, you know, we're not doing much, and there's very few employers that are actually like embracing your cultural well being, you know, and having conversations with people first and foremost about that. How are you, you know, doing, doing? You know, I suppose we're bringing a culture in where it's actually embodied by the CEO or the leader. And that's sort of filtered in through the workplace, you know, some employees that go really well, like Virgin blue, and Google and all rows, they got plenty of money, obviously, too. But, you know, just to be able to do some things, I think it's really important in our barbecue, and that's great. But let's do things that actually help the body in mind become more harmonized, I think that's where we can start to increase productivity, but more importantly, increase happiness. And that happiness film is out in this community. I think that's where we've fallen off track gap considerably over the last couple of decades.
Brendan Torazzi
So if you're an employer listening, and you want to do say, you don't have a budget, what can you do something simple that might start you on this journey? Like, I don't know, maybe you got 10 to 25 people or? I don't know, I'll just try. I'm just trying to help, I guess, have a bit of a brainstorm what little change employers could make that could make you could have a big impact.
Aaron Schultz
If I was a manager of a team of 20 to 25 people, I would spend 10 minutes at the start of the day, sitting around talking to everybody and then a group How you going in and just start a conversation. And then maybe every Wednesday we're going to do a stretching session before we start work. And then we're going to maybe do a meditation session the next Wednesday before we start work and actually break the wake up by doing something a little bit different than you know and all of a sudden notice the change in you in your your productivity throughout that day, but also notice a change in your people. Doing things like that makes sense. Huge difference of, I've been into some very hardcore blue collar environments where guys are tough and meaning the arms are crossed, and I've had them, you know, letting go to be able to, you know, feel better through their body, and all of a sudden they walk out of the room really, really focused, and they're actually talking to their, their mates and that sort of thing. And, you know, they go through the day, quite smoothly, but if someone's agitated, and they work in a coffee and and a Red Bull, and that before they start work there, the risk to them physically and mentally is, is a lot more significant, you know, so this is a stuff that is really relevant, make sense, but it's ignored. So, you know, to an employer, just do something small like that start with and just notice the track what's going on, we're really good at capturing data and all that sort of stuff. But now we need to sort of look at this more seriously. And actually, like, look at what, what the benefits are, you know, for us, personally, but also for our teams.
Brendan Torazzi
So it sounds like workplaces are generally open to this sort of thing. Even they might have a tough exterior, or, you know, if they can learn some basic things that you know, that story, you just go over the the tough blue collar workforce with arms crossed, and then they're chatting to their friends, or their colleagues afterwards, like,
Aaron Schultz
Well, that was pretty, I went in to win that one a little bit differently. I was actually working as a Workplace Health and Safety Advisor for grain handling facility at the time. I never encouraged it, the boss of the organization saw something in me because he knew I was a yoga teacher and was quite calm. And he said, How about coming into the toolboxes starting to do a few things? And that's how that eventuated but if I was knocking on their door and sit on such and such an epic mind Foundation, would you like me to come and do something I would have told me that piece off. So. So So yeah, so I went in through the back door. But yeah, like, I've got a really good reference from that company, about the work that I did at a company and some financial problems later on, and a lot of people go, but But basically, yeah, I know, it works. You know, it really does. I've been you back to the prisons, I've been in a room of agitated mind, guys who've got serious, you know, traumas, you know, some major offenses. But if you can show help help guys and show people how to be calm, and how to sort of, you know, relax, and it doesn't discriminate. So if we can get people in a workplace to a state of feeling that sort of relaxation, before they go on to a job, I think it's, it's significant significantly changes the, the the uptake in physical injury throughout the day, but also, you know, keeping them more grounded and balanced. So they leave the workplace, a little bit more self aware. So they're actually not going and, you know, getting into the drugs and the booze, which is a huge problem. So you know,
Brendan Torazzi
and, and so why set up your business as a foundation, as opposed to just a normal? Business?
Aaron Schultz
Good question, I really believe that I need to take a softer approach with this, you know, I'm not I'm not doing this for for profit for myself, you know, I want to be able to work more with industry and organizations from a charitable level to be able to, you know, show them that there's that there's benefits to be able to do this sort of stuff, for sure. So, so financially, I've gone backwards a long way. But I know the work that I need to do in the future is important. And I want to be able to, you know, grow people like me throughout every state and territory that can actually get out there and do this work. So to be able to do that, with more, you know, industry and more employers is really important. So, going, going down that path now is something that's really, I suppose, important for me as a 50 year old, because I've certainly gone through the whole journey. And, you know, I want to be able to do what I can to give back now. And you know, having a charity was something I hadn't really contemplated. But certainly, I believe it's a good way to go to be able to help businesses that may be able to do with the hand and maybe you're struggling financially can sort of, you know, chip in through donations. And then for us to be able to give some support back through those donations is a win win. Lots of charities take a lot, but they don't give anything back. I was talking about organization the other day, they gave me indoors to be on blue threw something in us and what they got back and I got nothing, you know, so if I was able to do some things for that community, or for those workplaces, that network, that it can help them that that spreads out know from from that workplace. So that's why I'd sort of set it up to function the way that it is.
Brendan Torazzi
And so the future of the charity is that to train other people, you mentioned other states is that the plan to train other people like you and each state to be able to deliver programs?
Aaron Schultz
Absolutely love to for sure. Yep. Yeah, I'd like to hear from like minded people, you know, in other areas that we can form collaboration and to be able to, you know, help them with some employment, but not financially strong enough at the moment, we really need sponsors to come on board with us, you know, some some organizations that provide goods and services in regional communities that believe in what we're doing, and be able to help us along the way. And that can help us to be able to, you know, spread what we do to be able to grow and support other areas as well. So I'm, I've been living off savings for a while, you know, I get out and do a bit, and I really take away from what I'm doing. But, you know, I know that it'll change in the future. So I haven't, haven't been chasing profit, like I would as if I was, you know, business. So I'm more focused on, you know, helping this charity evolve and and doing it for the right reasons.
Brendan Torazzi
So it's been pretty tricky in the last few years and with the pandemic to get out there, or is that actually open doors now that we're in 2022? And, yeah, Passover a bit?
Aaron Schultz
Yeah, I believe. So I think people are thinking differently. There's, there's no doubt about that, you know, people are more open to to change, but it's still taking a bit of work, to be able to sort of convince organizations that they need to invest in this area. So in central Queensland here, you know, there's lots of government funding, Phil, women's health, but there's nothing for men's health. So I don't get any support familiar, those sort of mechanisms, you know,
Brendan Torazzi
that's surprising how I would have thought that Men's Health would have been an issue.
Aaron Schultz
Yeah, it is. Nice. Yeah. Yeah. So
Brendan Torazzi
you that involves, I guess, lobbying government to watch show that there's a requirement or?
Aaron Schultz
Yeah, for sure. Definitely. I need to start having conversations with, with, I suppose the key people in the area, to maybe talk to Ken about this, you probably prompted me to contact the local member and actually have a conversation with him at some point in time, because I think it's important.
Brendan Torazzi
Yeah, I'd imagine there's pockets of funding around for stuff like this. It's just about uncovering where those buckets are. And,
Aaron Schultz
yes, where it can come from. That's right. Yeah, so it's new for me, you know, I haven't been in the space of having to look for grants or funding before, you know, so. So anyone that sits in this can give you some guidance around that I'd be grateful. I think there's, there's definitely some support out there this regards to it. And yeah, do what I can be able to chase, chase some funding, which can really help us get out there and do the work.
Brendan Torazzi
Amazing. All right, Aaron. Well, thanks so much for coming on the show today and tell us tell us all about what you're doing the great work that you're doing. If people want to find out a little bit more about our back mind Foundation, what's your website,
Aaron Schultz
it's epic mind.org that I use, it's also the back mind podcast. And that's, that has a lot of stories that we've experienced people that have come through, you know, various challenges a lot of sports people and musicians and just general general people off the street farmers and so forth. So do that. Also, one other thing I meant to mention, the men circles that we do, are really, really strong and powerful. And if there's anyone listening that's in a community throughout Australia, who would like to potentially set up a men's circle in their area, we can have a chat about that. That's that's sort of voluntary at the moment. But I'm hoping that some funding will come to be able to support that as well. That that in assessments has been able to, you know, significant significantly helped mental health challenges in the area, particularly through COVID, but also helped stop and divert suicides within the within the people that come to the Sharm, it's just been such a life changing things for them. I think for them, particularly guys, when something goes wrong in their life, they haven't really got the outlet. Other than using drugs and alcohol or going to the pub to company seems to be able to learn how to deal capacity is really important. So I know the power of that. And if anyone wants to maybe look at doing something in their area, we've got a good framework now that we've developed that we can actually start to Internet. So you've got a guide to work towards and to have the support of a group that I think is really key. So good to have a chat about that. All right, Aaron,
Brendan Torazzi
thanks so much.
Aaron Schultz
No, I appreciate it.
Aaron Schultz
You've been listening to an ihs.com.au production.
Brendan Torazzi
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