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TRANSCRIPT
Cathal Uniacke
This is an ohs.com.au production
Brendan Torazzi
Welcome to Episode 58 of the Australian Health and Safety Business Podcast. I'm Brendan Torazzi, host of the show and today I'm with Kabul. Uniacke from custodian safety services. Did I get that right couple?
Cathal Uniacke
You did, Brendan, thanks very much. I'm a bit of a tricky, tricky Irish name, but it is what it is. That's what my mother gave me. So that's
Brendan Torazzi
so your backgrounds Irish, how long have you been in Australia for?
Cathal Uniacke
I emigrated here in 2011? So I'd be here 11 years this month?
Brendan Torazzi
And were you doing safety back in Ireland? Yeah, I
Cathal Uniacke
did a degree in the National University of Ireland and Galway from 2003 to 2007. So just just got out and got employed before the Lehman Brothers crashed, if you remember in the GFC, and that's triggered off everything. So I just, I just managed to get employment. And there was a couple of projects in Ireland, I was lucky, got some cold face experience after my degree. I had started working in 2005, before I finished, so I didn't wait to finish my degree. I got some hands on experience before I finished, which was a shrewd move in the scale of things. And, yeah, shortly after the GFC hit and the projects dried up and all that Ireland became quite difficult to get quite badly burned. Yeah. And I made a decision I heard Australia was a pretty good place. And I said, Well, I was on married and single. And I said it can't hurt to have a look. And yeah, I think regret it.
Brendan Torazzi
You can always go back home, I guess if it didn't work out. So yeah, clearly you haven't. So it must have worked out for you.
Cathal Uniacke
Yes, Australia is a great place. But so is Ireland. So it was good or good.
Brendan Torazzi
Yeah. Yeah. And so I don't know much about Ireland and the safety culture over there. Can you for our listeners, can you just sort of explain what the what the approach to safety is in Ireland? Is it? Is it based on a similar system? Or? Yeah, look, it
Cathal Uniacke
was very similar. I think, you know, if you go back, the British give Australia their laws, and they also give Ireland their laws. So it works. It works very similar. It's kind of a common law system. And it was all it was quite similar. I found it was probably more traveled the ground in Ireland in the UK. I did work in the UK for a while before I emigrated to Australia. I was I was over there, but it wasn't much different to what I was experienced in Ireland and weatherwise was saying it was safe, bad weather. But, yeah, in terms of the safety, it was the same.
Brendan Torazzi
And what are they what sort of industries were you working in, I was
Cathal Uniacke
working in civil and commercial civil construction mainly. So that was the kind of key industry building roads and infrastructure, a little bit of commercial construction before I left, I was employed at the time. So I'm a consultant now. And I've opened up my field to care for other industries. But when you're employed, you can basically only work for whoever your employer is. So that's the kind of exposure you get. So it was more traveled ground when I got here. You had safety but it was more informal. Here. It was Chevy right met.
Brendan Torazzi
All right. Okay. That's interesting. So it's more regulated in the UK and Ireland, would you say or it's
Cathal Uniacke
not, it's more regulated. It's been a profession for a longer, little bit. I'm not saying one is better than the other I Australia does it really well. And I have a busy business. And I'm really happy working here. And people take it very seriously. It's very important. But it was just it was more travel ground. It was professional, there was way more case laws, there was way more solicitors honed in on this stuff. There was a very, very active HSC in England HSA in Ireland, which is the equivalent of WorkSafe for WorkCover. around Australia. It was just traveled ground. So when I got here, it was a little bit more informal. But I do think in the time I've got here, it's really hard. You know, it's it's, it's quite operate in a big way. And of course, there's just inconsistencies you have the residential aware that exists everywhere where safety is nearly non existent. And then you have the commercial jobs where it's over to, you know, could be said to be over the top that that existed that's been common across both places. But yeah, I just felt, you know, it was it was good. It was opportunities for me, I felt my skills. You know, it's proven to be the case.
Brendan Torazzi
Yeah. So you kind of been working in the field since 2005. You got here. 2011. So that's probably a lot of quite a few years of practical experience on the job before you hit Australia.
Cathal Uniacke
Yeah, that will be correct. You know, eviction in 2005 2007. I was blending in studies and exams, but I'm on the ground jobs and then 2011 got here and settled in and he acclimatized to Austria. Any life which was not too dissimilar? I think it's quite easy for an Irish person to come here. You don't. We love sport. We love socializing and nice scenery.
Brendan Torazzi
We're about to base at the moment cattle.
Cathal Uniacke
So I'm living in my best in Melbourne and I live in Ringwood in the east. When I'm not working. I'm raising my five year old daughter. Yes. So. So that's, that's where I'm based and quite happy. We're happy living out there.
Brendan Torazzi
And with your custody and safety services, are you working predominantly in Victoria? Or do you? Is it all around the country or?
Cathal Uniacke
Yeah, when I set it up, I didn't have a god Geraldo Sears custodian solver setup in 2013. I worked here for two years with the company while I was getting settled, it would be a huge shock to try and move relocate country and set up a business all in one go,
Brendan Torazzi
custodian started 2013. And then by what was the what was the driver for you? To start it?
Cathal Uniacke
Oh, I just I think a lot of opportunities to have small to midsize businesses initially. And then I felt very narrowed. And I had commercial or civil construction. That was kind of what I knew in terms of the professional I just felt I didn't want to get necessarily employed by other industries, but I just felt I could dip my feet in there and see if I can help people or our our get, you know, get get into that area. So I, I felt a good way of doing it was was I could keep my professional development and keep my career but work as a consultant was certainly a risk for sure. And it's kind of proven to be the case. Now predominantly, my most of my work is to the comms and commercial and civil construction. But I have been able to dip my feet in and get involved in waste and recycling, telecommunications, manufacturing, helping other professional service providers. Doing some auditing, I've just put more flavors than I would have working for a job, nothing wrong with a job. But I just felt I was a bit narrowed. And I felt I could give it a crack. My My father, who sadly passed away a long time ago now was in a small business owner. So I think I've got my test for I suppose not doing deals, I don't want to say I'm a car salesman, but businesses just you have to be putting in prices, seeing what needs was an element of businesses business. At the end of the day, no matter what you're doing. I think I picked up that from a young age. And I I kind of seen him live that life and maybe said, Well, I know how to do that. I've seen him do it. And I didn't really know how to do it. But I learned but yeah, that's that's where I got the kind of my drive for a bit drive for business from what I was while maintaining a career. And I train every year even though I'm self employed, I update and training and, and whatnot. So I felt I've got the best of both. I've got to run a little business, which gives me flexibility. But I've also maintained a career.
Brendan Torazzi
Yeah, it sounds like you're, you're obviously a very curious person that you you actually enjoy the updates and training and learning and
Cathal Uniacke
yeah, for sure. Sure. And I enjoy kind of helping people. Yeah, updating and keeping up to date with things. So
Brendan Torazzi
yeah. It's funny that you should say that about your father being in small business because I had a similar, I guess, growing up my parents were both in small business. And for me getting a job for somebody else was about as foreign it is for most people to start their own business. So I'm very much in your camper car holder. You know, working for myself is something that I've kind of known for most of my career. So
Cathal Uniacke
yeah, it takes time. It's take time, it's not for everybody. And there's nothing wrong with getting a job or taking a job. I kind of occasionally do that. So it's not it's not like our business is so much better than working for someone but it's just, if you can kind of handle the ups and downs and remain monotone and get your head around compliance. You probably know her chest is one thing, but I'm an expert in zero. No, and I'm an expert in all these accounting management software's. Yeah, a website management that I really didn't think I underestimated how difficult it is to be. But I it's about safety. But if you can kind of sell you're sunk. So yes, you still need to get out there and say, Hey, this is what we do. This is how we can help and it's kind of a continuous thing. But so
Brendan Torazzi
for people listening today that potentially maybe they are working for another company and they've got an inkling to go on, do something for themselves. What would your what would your thoughts be around on that? Like, how do you get started to? It's a big leap of faith. Right? So how's our WhatsApp? What's the risk free or less risky way of getting started where you can do right? Do your own gig,
Cathal Uniacke
there is no risk free. What restrict Birgit and start, do your due diligence, have your audit drive stuff about registering your business and all that stuff out of the way? to.com.au There's a lot of dry things that that you need to do the kind of compliance things ironically, I'm in compliance so I got through it. Okay. But it's definitely not exciting and it's not anti anting anybody ever says to you when they run a business, but it's very, very important to have your your your legalities in order. Auditing was a very good one. So not just consulting. But auditing is kind of consistent, I make sure you've got that feather in your cap, because people will always be the auditing people must comply. So once you get your foot in the door, compliance, even John COVID, when we talked, the whole world was falling apart and think they kept going, they still most compliance became more important than ever, so you must apply. There was the same with the GFC when the whole world was falling apart, apparently, but then people have people still had to comply. So the work was still actually technically there. Make sure you've got cash savings, make sure if you've got a partner that she's in on it, or he or she is in us. Because yes, it will have an effect. It's not an easy task. And yeah, just if you're thinking about doing it, yeah, go for it. It's great if it works, but don't be don't be ever afraid to go back either. It doesn't always work for everybody. And yeah, don't have past things with your current employer either. It's he somewhere someone's took the risk and you're working for them. Now. You've got to do a good job for them. You don't want to be stocking tours where you're half doing your own thing half doing, doing their thing. That's not That's not right. either. I believe in my comeback. And you're so if you're gonna go for a golfer, but if you're not just what for your employer, because yeah, it's it's not easy. And these people that set up businesses employ people and you have to do a good job for them too. So,
Brendan Torazzi
so 2013 You went all in? Am I taking it? Yeah,
Cathal Uniacke
completely handed in my notice and went 100% Okay, studying, it was never, I set up some of the dry stuff was lining up contacts. Y'all wanted to spread my wings and give it a go. And it really got to the point where as I've never regretted forcing a deal was get go back to a job again. Yeah. And yeah, I from 2013. I have been 100% employed by custodian safety services. I didn't have acid it was kind of all or nothing and swim or sink. And it's Yeah, it took time it took took a couple of years to get back to where it was. But now I've got you know, it's still it's still out still question is now and again. But don't question it often enough to consider and just you do you do two things you get up and excel your business or your your folders to Yes, really, it's simple enough. Are you actually
Brendan Torazzi
doing the maths now you've been? So if you started 2005 working you were kind of eight years working for other people. And then you've actually further in working for yourself now?
Cathal Uniacke
Yes, six, four years and then then two semi years where I was studying and then yet another another eight years working for myself all in the OHS space.
Brendan Torazzi
Yeah, yeah. That's, that's amazing. It's it's a great name your business. How did you come up with custodian safety services? Yeah, I just thought it was a solid word. Yeah. You feel safe. You feel safe to Syria.
Cathal Uniacke
It's a janitor. So custodian is a caretaker janitor. So I just said, Yeah, I'll take care of that things. And, and I work for some pretty passionate directors, I got some good exposure. And it was just basically, from a young age, just cleaning it up mess. So yeah, something gone wrong, or to be issues on a site or to be issues with documents. And I was a pretty hardworking guy, energetic and passionate. And the answer would be just to me clean it up. The directors are too busy, and they didn't want to get involved. They were paying me and that's the way it goes. So I kind of kind of was in my head and I just said, Yeah, I I got it. No one else had it. i.com that I used it when all that try stuff. I AIP just trademark a trademark the logo and stuff, all that dry stuff and, and ran with a saw. Yeah, custodian. Yeah. Great. I don't think I don't think a name makes a massive difference at the end of the day, but Oh, no,
Brendan Torazzi
about that. I mean, it's your whole positioning and branding. And, you know, I think it does make a subtle difference, personally. But yeah. Anyway, I love the name. So what's your what's your sort of favorite or typical client? Like? They come along and say, like, are they in a mess? Or are they going in the right going and know what's your favorite type of work? Like where you make the most impact? In other words, yeah, look,
Cathal Uniacke
I like to drive people to the next level. So favorite, my favorite type is they probably have an existing system. They might even be ISO certified, but they're just, they want to drive it make it not just ISO certified, but actually make it a really exceptional system that functions well spread across the organization that doesn't just have one person that's responsible for doing it all because they're the experts and nobody else knows anything that doesn't work. It's just ingrained in the organization and the safety person is more of a checker and monitor care. Tech a rather than the driving force or taking it to the next level that it manages itself, of course, it'd be software's it's everyone out there be multiple software's mixed in for X, Y, and Zed. And yeah, maybe somebody that might have maybe a blue collar background, it gets caught out in this absolute massive labyrinth of bureaucracy, you can make be a great safety person with great safety, knowledge and mixing, you come across these people who might have your 12 schooling done, or might have done well in year 12, but have 30 great years experience and have moved into safety. But they can get completely wind wound up, I can see it a lot in the bureaucracy of safety. Look, I was lucky enough to have an education and stuff like that. So you know, it's not all about education. But if you if you have the cognitive capacity to learn, and you've went to a degree your processes easier, but it doesn't mean that person with 30 years good experience can't do it. They just have to find someone like me that can maybe clear up on tangled up bureaucracy. And that's what I like bringing it to kind of the next level. But having said that, I I can't refer anyone if you are in a mess. Yeah, certainly have a look at it. I want enjoy untangling your mess, because you probably got a cultural issue. And that's a bit harder. And that's a bit harder. But if if the culture is there, I like my favorite jobs are just bringing people to the next level bringing them up if if they're a kind of a mid sized business, and they see these tier ones, and these top companies do things really well. I like to take them and say, Hey, you can do that, too. And this is how
Brendan Torazzi
it sound almost like a, like a performance safety coach in a way like they could be humming, the wheels are spinning, and you give them a bit of a nudge to
Cathal Uniacke
Yeah, well. Don't get me wrong, I'm still back building systems and doing the very nitty gritty basic stuff and organizing stuff. But yeah, that's you asked me, What do I absolutely enjoy? Yes, I enjoy doing but I still will get down. Sometimes you'll have a safety person, and it'll look for certification, and it'll just be a bit muddled their system won't quite right. They'll have June documents they'll have they'll have systems that are separate to each other when they could be really integrated. Stuff like that. So I enjoy doing that kind of work so
Brendan Torazzi
and do you have to match the system to the culture? Like so in other words, it's not a the system slightly different depending on the culture of the organization. Because it's very, it's like, I guess my question is, it's pretty hard to change culture. So how do you how do you make it? How do you get the staff on board to run with the changes, I guess?
Cathal Uniacke
Yeah. Funny did one recently and was a manufacturing company and just didn't want to certifications, they want to move forward, get better jobs, they enjoy the work, they've got pretty good culture. But their systems are a bit modeled how I changed the culture by the incentive is just a good safety person performance got their hands tightly gripped on the system, they're doing a pretty good job with the system. I also do some quality and environmental consulting that we haven't mentioned, the system has to evolve to get a bit bigger to grow, I need them to loosen the grip for a while. So I can make the changes, take a step back couple of deep breaths and just change the direction of some of the things we're doing to add in other environments, and then they'll get a system that meets the certifications, and the company shall be allowed to grow. So yes. Yeah, untangling the systems in the culture. It to kind of have the decision made if if they're calling me they know they need to make a change. Yeah, that's that's bad. That's, that's, that's, you know, it's not too bad.
Brendan Torazzi
And is there a sweet spot in the number of employees that the company would have like?
Cathal Uniacke
Well, the diff to the bigger ones that I'm performing coaching could have up to 100? That'd be quite big, but not Not really. I mean, you can have 1010 Hands on employees, and then you have an admin of whatever we might have. Time. So I work, I work anywhere from the very small to very big I don't I don't exclude or discriminate of backgrounds on the streets. Yeah. If they're happy enough with me and where I've come from, I'd be happy and offered them and where they've come from.
Brendan Torazzi
Yeah. And then it's probably a bit of a hard question to answer. But how long say with those sort of smaller companies under like, I don't know, between 10 and 25. What sort of timeframe is required to like say they've, they've got the basics there. They're, you know, they're moving along. They've got a bit of a foundation. How long does it generally take to start seeing the differences come through?
Cathal Uniacke
Oh, yeah. Very, very quickly. I mean, you can see it in a couple of weeks. Yeah. Wow. The difference can come through. It's a little bit of a two thing for a director and I always tell them I don't tell him. I don't have celebrate I like to do the the under promise and over deliver but he's going to have to pay for me to come in and change lives. He's going to have to pay for a little bit of staff time to get their head around. or allocate staff time he's probably paying for that staff time anyway. And he's probably going to have to get some electricians into checks Checky switchboards, he's going to have to upgrade his fire safety he's gonna have to maybe upgrade some of the plant he's gonna have to do is he's emergency plans. He's probably got to spend half on me and half on an actual hands on cast. I do his walkways are in order could be upgraded some software's could be, it's a little bit twofold. That's I'm suppose I'm thinking manufacturing, they're the constructors. Yeah, he might have issues with his plans. So there's just a bit of capital investment and acid investment too. So I'm, yeah, he's got to be ready. He's gonna pay for me. And he's Yeah, he's gonna do up to some capital improvements to its its text investment.
Brendan Torazzi
Yeah. But as you say, if they're calling you, though, they probably understand that. And if it's done properly, I would imagine you pay his back in business efficiencies. Yeah, I'm
Cathal Uniacke
not a business consultant, either. He's a director, he's got a, I don't make that decision for him. I just laid out there, hey, this is what I'm going to cost. And when you're ready, this position, if they're not, I'm about my prices are fair, if it's not me, and you're getting someone else as well, it's gonna cost you because, yeah, he's got to, you've got to kind of invest, but then they'll get better projects to take their business forward. Or to get them out of a hole that they were in. It could be two things that works if they have trouble with the regulator, and they've got to get out of a little hole they found themselves in, or they've got to take their business to the next level. So yeah, it's kind of Yeah, I'm not. Yeah, he estimate they have to make that decision that me.
Brendan Torazzi
Yeah. 100% 100%. So what does the future look like for customer custody and safety services? What are your plans now? I hope to Yeah, move it forward.
Cathal Uniacke
Oh, yeah. Look, if you're in I am probably not HS consultant. I don't want to be to talk to businesses and to property. But yeah, I mean, if you're not if you're in business, you got to grow it. If you don't grow, it does one thing or the other, you either go forward or you go backwards. So yeah, you've got to grow it. So if the plans are to grow at I launched an online shop, you're in COVID. Because the whole world went mad with for online. So I launched an online shop at low costs, swims and safe, safe work method statements and safe work procedures, your low cost swimming pool in in Queensland, part one who needed to manage the hazardous substances just recently, so I never thought I would service swimming pool in Queensland, but I did. So I was quite happy with that. And they kind of he rang me about it. And he was he's quite chuffed. He's got a document now to manage these hazardous substances. And I think he's triggered was local schools use it and they said, Hey, you got to, you've got to demonstrate how your compliance or it's all. I never thought I would do that. So yeah, I want to develop that kind of online low cost model. I want to Yeah, and continue to audit and consult. You know, growers. Eventually, I'd like to maybe get a contract, you know, a younger person in and I can show them, show them the stuff I know, you know, kind of leverage out a little bit but upscale and educate maybe someone else or a couple of people work on some projects and, and yeah, just always remember, I'm a dad as well. So I've got to have some family time and I can't be can't be too stressed out. But I've got to, you know, balance that out. 100%
Brendan Torazzi
Okay. Well, thanks so much for coming on the show today, Carl, if people want to find out more about your business, what's your website? Yeah, so
Cathal Uniacke
it's WW duck custodian. safety.com Daddy, you so you'll find us there you'll find me my name Carl Uniacke on LinkedIn. I'm happy to connect with people and have some discussions flicked me an email, a contact us form a text message or phone call. I operate on all other mediums. We've got a Twitter account. I've got a blog. I'll keep a keep blogging. People might find it interesting about topics and yeah, you reach out and I'm happy to have chats with anyone and appreciate you having me on the show as well. Brendon.
Brendan Torazzi
That's great. Well, I'll I'll get all those details and put those in the show notes for everyone so they can click through. But thanks again, Carl.
Cathal Uniacke
Yeah, no worries. Thanks.
Cathal Uniacke
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Brendan Torazzi
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