Ep 47 Creative Safety Initiatives (CSI) launches new Nationally Recognised Silica Course

• 10830NAT COURSE IN CRYSTALLINE SILICA EXPOSURE PREVENTION - ARNCLIFFE, SYDNEY
• 10830NAT COURSE IN CRYSTALLINE SILICA EXPOSURE PREVENTION - MELBOURNE
• 10830NAT COURSE IN CRYSTALLINE SILICA EXPOSURE PREVENTION - MITCHELL, CANBERRA

TRANSCRIPT

Unknown Speaker
This is an ohs.com.au production

Brendan Torazzi
Welcome to Episode 47 of the Australian Health and Safety Business Podcast. I'm Brendan Torazzi, the host of the show and this morning, I'm joined with Jason Jennings from CSI in Canberra. Good morning.

Jason Jennings
Morning

Brendan Torazzi
Great, great. Now you've really taken a bit of an innovation and a lead on silica awareness and getting a nationally recognized course approved.

Unknown Speaker
Quite a journey. It's been done.

Brendan Torazzi
So can you tell us? Why? What What were the reasons for that?

Unknown Speaker
Okay, so the problem is CEO of CSI here in Canberra for over 15 years. And when I first started in the training industry back in 2004, we're actually training around the dangers of silica containing products and obviously, silicosis. Now, I think over over time, what seemed to me it happened is the the asbestos issue became more and more of an issue. And I think just by virtue of that, and different initiatives around Australia, in particular, around asbestos awareness training, and so on, that maybe didn't sort of get the attention that maybe needed from from industry. So, in 2017, through our industry consultation, as an RTO, we got feedback, that silica is going to be the next asbestos potentially, there's a need to educate workers, we work very closely with the CFMEU branch here in the ICT. And there was some feedback we got from them around the dangers both on a national level, and we're seeing things overseas as well in the in the US, and so on. So, we put together a our first non accredited awareness course, that was a two hour course. And we do a lot of work for the local TAFE, the Cambridge Institute of Technology. And we rolled that course out to the apprentices in their first second and third year of construction trades, to get their feedback and also start falling out in the industry. So that's the start there.

Brendan Torazzi
Wow. So can you for people that don't know about silica, can you give us sort of some practical examples of where workers may be exposed to silica?

Unknown Speaker
So I look obviously, in the media at the moment is saying around manufactured stone benchtops. And the dangers around that. But from our perspective, and when we put the course together, it's not just completely contained to that particular product. So they've got concrete, it's saying seemed you've got tiles, a raft of different products that contain silica, at different concentrations. So yeah, it's, you know, if you go on any building site, or any construction site, I suppose around Australia, where you would find sort of tiny products being tossed, and is dying on a daily basis.

Brendan Torazzi
So I mean, I'm thinking of some examples at near my kids school where I recently saw, you know, road crews cutting up the roads, no PPE, dust flying everywhere. Is that, is that an example of Where's, you know, they could be potentially exposed to silica?

Unknown Speaker
Yeah, well, I think that wouldn't be unfair to say that, but we've got an issue, how we deal with a product on a day to day basis on in the workplace on building sites. But as you understand the kind of them then it flows into the wider community. We're doing demolition, for instance, you know, concrete cutting, civil works, and so on. So yeah, it's probably a fair assumption to make that it's not just combined workers.

Brendan Torazzi
So it's not it's no mean feat to be able to get an accredited course up and running with that square. Can you walk us through? Like the process of doing that? How long does it take? What are the hurdles?

Unknown Speaker
enough, fair enough. So as I said, before, we sort of started putting the course together in 2017. And then I'd had a bit of an exposure before around getting courses accredited with Haskell aside a bit of a an idea of what we're up for. So what we wanted to do first was do some, some industry research around what was implied. Before we were meant to have put in the initial concept as well. So we did a bit of a research around Australia around what was available at that particular time. So we're talking early 2018. There was a number of probably ad hoc, non accredited courses that were available at that stage. But there was nothing that seemed to be on the agenda on a national level for a national unit of competence, or anyone else seeming to doing accredited course. So around that time we put forward and engage with our local training advisory body Industry Training advisory that construction instructor training council here in Canada. It had been On, they had seen the need for this sort of period of time through their, the work they do for the training kind of authority here in Canberra. They've been in the training plan for a year or so. So we bought together the work with the with the union, we work with some of the employees, and we record the training advisory body to put the initial concept as for the sort of like a pre approval that you go through, but that's fine. That came back and said, Well, yeah, they say they trip. And they were happy for us to put forward. So then we put the actual initial application together, that we launched with ESCWA. This was now around mid 2019. By the time we worked through all the different things were allocated, then a case manager from that spot that knew a fair bit about the topic around silica and silicosis and so on, so which was good. And we went through the process, and we worked it out. And usually these from what I understand it could take anywhere between six and 12 months to get an accredited course, this managed to get through in about three, three to four months. So

Brendan Torazzi
it's amazing. Yeah,

Unknown Speaker
I think the the need for industry was obviously evidence with the work we've done in the initial application, or in the media around that time. We're highlighting the issue random, as presented. So it was in the the end of November 2009. They actually credited.

Brendan Torazzi
So I guess that's the first step having the actual national unit of competency. How do you then get, you know, what are the next steps now to try and get industry to take it up? Because I mean, there's a view that a lot of people in industry are a bit lazy, and they'll only do it if they're told they have to, like cameras. You know, you guys have been amazing in leading, like, say with the asbestos awareness first territory to make to mandate that, how do you get this thing started. So industry actually stop and take notice and and start doing the training required?

Unknown Speaker
I think industry understand that it's an issue. And I think they're probably looking for a way of being able to manage it. And I don't think that be unfair to say the trainings, the only thing that should be done, I think it plays a part in a in a system, systematic way of approaching it. Generally the employers that we deal with outlet for advice that they will sort of waiting to get an accredited course, they want to be able to do make sure that there's a training assessment component, which comes with an accredited course and making sure workers are walking away with the knowledge that they need to be implemented in the workplace. In this particular course, through the negotiations with ASCO, they wanted us to train and assess against developing to safe work method statements, which you know, is probably something that industry needs as well. So, but generally that the feedback we're getting, unfortunately for us, we get it accredited in late 2019, we're getting to the start of 2020, to think we're going to roll this in. And there was a bit of a hiatus for probably 12 months, generally, on face value or the industry, obviously through our what we've seen in the training plan here. And as at once I mean, we went out we developed and we deliver.

Brendan Torazzi
So the companies that are taking it up now actually, they've identified it as a risk in the workplace, and they they're looking to mitigate their risks by educating their staff and, and just sort of really underlining what the, you know, what the potential risks are, anyway.

Unknown Speaker
Yeah, the random mitigation, I think that's, you know, maybe part of it, I think it's more around, you know, employers wanted to meeting their obligations, as opposed to BU, and then being able to look at this, how do we try to instruct our workers? I think that industry want to take it to a next level as well. You know, I think that there is, there's, you know, we've got correspondence, we have a creditor training, you know, we've got accredited training for trades and so through some carpentry and so on, and that's where I think, you know, back in the day when the asbestos awareness course, was nationally accredited and became mandated in the territory that wanted to see a train and assess outcome to ensure that workers got what they needed. So yeah, that's sort of where I'm sort of seeing interest.

Brendan Torazzi
Yeah, cuz I mean, it is a long term process, isn't it? Like you really want to get those apprentices right at the start of their career to be to know all about the dangers so I

Unknown Speaker
think it's it's like anything printed out in the timeline worked in industry around you know, we do impairment awareness training, which we buy we redid that accreditation for that course. At the same time, I was doing their silicone accreditation, okay. To running alongside of each other, which, in hindsight, I won't do that.

Brendan Torazzi
Brave man. Yeah, pretty heavy.

Unknown Speaker
Name is a pretty heavy tool. But I think when there's a need, and we need to bring it to the industry, and we need to have quality training outcomes, the benefit we have when we do an accredited course is if you develop the training resources, and have that available for RTOs, to deliver this particular course, for the tarp, and of course, are the silica quartz, we were never going to be the only RTR that deliver this, this course, it was something that we saw that we could bring to industry, but the construction industry and the VET sector, to say, well, here's a model course that we believe, will give industry what they need. And there's certain things that we write into the application to deliver that we want the trainers to hold higher qualifications than just the unit we want them to have. So for worship and safety, along with, you know, commitment from the RTO, that we are going to do a 12 month audit as the core signer on the top of what our school will do over there. Through that five year seven year, monitoring audits to ensure that quality training outcomes are there.

Brendan Torazzi
It makes a lot of sense, having, I guess, you know, when you have an accredited course to have the prescribed course materials, and that way you can be an you know, you've got other hurdles about you know, the types of trainers that can deliver it makes sense that you get a consistent minimum benchmark that you can you can deliver this this course. And so what about tell us about the impairment, one, I didn't know about that. So that's another another accredited course that you've got over that

Unknown Speaker
it's another accredited course yet, so that one was a bit longer in the process, it started, when I first started in 2004, we were delivering a drug and alcohol program. And it was a drug and alcohol awareness course that evolved over time into the workplace impairment course for dealing with mental health, drugs, alcohol, you know, fatigue, so on and so forth. So we again, ran the same process, rather than for a long period of time as a non accredited course. And then we saw that there again, after we did the research, that there was nothing in that area around that's accredited. So we went through the site process simultaneously.

Brendan Torazzi
And do you think I mean, mental, you know, mental illness or, you know, that seems to be in the media a hell of a lot at the moment, particularly with what you know, a lot of people have been through in 2020 and into 2021, do you think, due to that there's a bit more of a need for that at the moment, like, oh, the

Unknown Speaker
one thing that if you look at the statistics around suicide, you know, I think the construction industry is now in there double the national average. And wow, Sure, okay. And you know, you've got different programs, we work closely with an organization called construction charitable works, that provides case management services for drugs and alcohol, and post traumatic stress disorder and a raft of things. So we are a believer, when we go and deliver training, and we're seeing this for the silica course, as well, when you come with a problem, you're going to be able to come up with a solution. Now that the impairment courses all around work, health and safety, it's not we're not coming in with an ideological issue around drugs and alcohol, for instance. So we're, we're talking about a workshop and safety issue around when you come to work, you've got to be able to come to be impaired, that then has a flow on effect. So we're talking about the workup and safety issue. But then obviously, when we're having these conversations, it's people in the room do sometimes need support. So we also then have the welfare support services running alongside of, we're delivering the training. So it's a holistic package.

Brendan Torazzi
Why do you think the construction industry has size? You know, double the normal levels? Is it the stress of the job? Or like what are the drivers that that make that industry susceptible to having impairment issues?

Unknown Speaker
Yeah, there are a number of things, you know, I think it's there's long hours that workers do and then, you know, there's times when you're away from your family for periods of time, whether it's due to the long hours, and that has a potential knock on effect. So I'm only giving you a date. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. I think that from what I've seen over the time, I actually worked in that, that will pay support as a as a welfare officer, for a period of time while I was involved with the training. And it's a lot around, you know, being away from family for long periods of time, I think then the stresses of industry, were up yourself up financially, and depending on what else you're working, yep. As we know, there's highs and lows of construction, and sometimes it's not work and we saw that last year, potentially in some areas with with the COVID pandemic. So then you've paid yourself up financially, potentially, and then had to pack that if you're not bringing income. And so I think there's numerous reasons. Yeah. And I think that we talked around the workplace mental health component of that. But then drugs and alcohol is a water issue for the general population and immunity. But then we've also got fatigue, you know, in look is the longer hours the potential workplace fatalities and injuries due to fatigue. So it's a holistic approach to how we try and manage that balloon with its delivery, of course, from wearing there educated workers around the dangers of silica were providing our welfare support there as well, yeah, because some workers just didn't understand the magnitude of what potentially might be in front of them. And then they need its support service as well, you know, on the day or soon after they've done the training. So,

Brendan Torazzi
yeah, that's, that's amazing. I mean, it sounds like, you know, the stuff you're delivering is making a real difference out there and workplaces. And, as you say, giving solutions to workers not just sort of talking about them at the dangers that

Unknown Speaker
we're on a true commitment to be wanting to deliver quality training, you know, sort of when we did the silica course, in particular, we wrote in there that we wanted to continue to improve and evaluate this course, every TalkBox. Yep. Okay. So within the first 12 months, we went back to ask what were some amendments, we wanted to donate to the unit in, in around delivery, because we didn't obviously, there was a pandemic, but we when we first went through, yeah, we're in the second year now of doing the continuous improvement. And we've engaged with the Australian Institute of Occupational Hygienists that have just done a full review on the course content, and provided some feedback to us, that we're going to take on board and more around wording and potential training resources. So once we complete that, which will be in the next month or two, we'll then be able to utilize their logo and their their endorsing the course content. And from our perspective, I think that's a bit of a no brainer. You know, I mean, look, it's about us continue improving the training resources, the idea of having the annual audits with the RTOS is about getting feedback from the trainers in different states about how it's landing on the ground, and the different states to then funnel all that information back and make adjustments that potentially go to the courts and continue

Brendan Torazzi
to prove it. So do you think that it's a matter of time now, before regulators jump on board, in supporting this initiative?

Unknown Speaker
Well, look, I think, you know, I've seen in, as indicated twice a week backs now that there is an appetite, I believe, from the asset to government mandate, you know, an accredited silica awareness course, alongside of what they've done around asbestos. Yep. So that'll all unfold, I suppose over the next period of time, and how that rolls out. But you know, that, as you pointed out there before, it's like everything, if, if if you've got to do something, to be able to work in industry, and you've got to have, you know, whether it be a wildcard or an asbestos cardigan, nasty tube, or silica and silica, and I think that not, that'd be obviously a good thing to get people involved. And then we get the message out there, we educate the workforce, and obviously early on, then brings together a holistic approach of how we're going to manage surgery in the workplace. And

Brendan Torazzi
yet, because it's, it's interesting, like with asbestos awareness, still, the ICT is the only sort of innovator. The other states just seem to be so slow to like, they all want to do it. But I don't know if it's politics or priorities.

Unknown Speaker
It's an interesting concept. It's refreshing the ICT in the territory in particular US territories, we like to be at the forefront of these issues. And I think with being able to run it, and you would assume that it just be something that you've looked at, and you're kind of water we do this here, but you know, obviously different stocks are looking after their what they need to do.

Brendan Torazzi
Yep. Okay. Well, thanks so much, Jason, for coming on the show today and telling us about your courses. If people want to reach out to you and find out a little bit more about getting the training delivered. What's your website?

Unknown Speaker
Yeah, so it's slightly, probably better if you if you're in the office, maybe yeah. Is 026230 1320. And just leave a message on doing a lot of the talking with the other RTOS to bring them on? You know, we've got five RTOS on now. We're doing we're negotiating with another three. Yep. The next round of the continuous improvement for us is to go through the university to do a business case. Not business case. Ever evidence base review on serving on the court. So they're in the office and I'm more than happy to, I don't want to yet so what we intend on doing and helping them getting it on Skype so they can deliver.

Brendan Torazzi
And so just just to give people a flavor as well. The course runs for four hours. Is that

Unknown Speaker
four hours face to face. With that includes your assessment component at the

Brendan Torazzi
end. Yep. And the impairment course. How long does that As I'm saying,

Unknown Speaker
face to face with the assessment companion at the end of it. Yep. And we're rolling them both out simultaneously. So, now that we've got them a credit so brilliant, yeah. Oh, never adulthood.

Brendan Torazzi
Congratulations, man. That sounds like fantastic work that you guys are doing.

Unknown Speaker
Where is it all thanks to Tom Brennan pressure.

Unknown Speaker
You've been listening to an ihs.com.au production.

Brendan Torazzi
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