TRANSCRIPT
Unknown Speaker
This is an ohs.com.au production
Brendan Torazzi
Welcome to Episode 44 of the Australian Health and Safety Business Podcast. I'm Brendan Torazzi, the host of the show and today I'm joined with Matthew Dixon from workbox. Safety in Tassie. I'm Matthew, how are you? Good. Good.
Unknown Speaker
Thanks, Brendan. Thanks for having me on the program.
Brendan Torazzi
So you're in the software safety business, how did you end up there?
Unknown Speaker
I suppose I was working in the civil construction industry, with a principal contractor, typically working on state government and federally funded jobs and just witnessing subcontractors wanting to come before and work for us and not being able to, you know, come up to speed with their safety systems very quickly. So that, that advised me that, you know, there was a need for something simple and easy to use out there in the workplace, for the majority of businesses. And so one day, I found myself going home late at night and drawing it, drawing it all up. There was one other trigger there, I suppose, worth mentioning. And that was, in my role. With that civil construction firm. I also manage the financial systems, you know, so we started using XERO as accounting platform. And as soon as I saw that, I realized what the future of safety should look like. And I realized that it was actually achievable to chase waste out of our current paper based processes.
Brendan Torazzi
And so how long ago was that, that you kind of end? Was it a transition? Did you do sort of this was your hobby at night? until it got to a certain point?
Unknown Speaker
Yeah, I suppose there was a stage there where it became a real bug, you know, was that sort of thing that I could see it? And I just had to try and get it down? As quickly as I could, you know, so I found it hard to drop, and really enjoyed coming home Moses, as if I was in the Tsar, and yeah, yeah, drawing and all that. But obviously, you know, that's certainly one stage of the process. You're not, I am essentially, a quality safety environment system. person. So I'm a process driven person, I, by no means could actually develop the technology. So I had to go and find those people. And, you know, the first first couple of people I found, were able to build a platform for me. But we quickly realized that they didn't have the, the experience and background for that platform to stand up and be rapidly scalable in the marketplace. But what that did for me is it gave us something that we could show other developers, this is exactly what we're trying to achieve.
Brendan Torazzi
We just wanted to work.
Unknown Speaker
In so yeah, it was working, but it just wasn't going to be scaled, it was gonna crash, you have the masses of people moved in. And so then we actually went and found some partners who had operated systems, web based systems. And, and it was much easier for us to communicate to them around what we were trying to achieve with the workflow. And the other thing that it did is because we had an operational model, it was easily challengeable in the room. So I created a lot of my success, actually, to those who are probably very naive in the safety space, but have a good understanding of just processes within their skill sets, you know, in and around programming. And, and allowing them to challenge the way we did things and say, well, actually, you know, there's other software's and they'll do this, and they'll do that. And, yeah, to the point where when you look at an SOP and workbox safety, it's not laid out across the screen, like we typically see in most workplaces, we've just broken it down as to more of an intuitive process that people can follow filling in the fields.
Brendan Torazzi
Yeah, that's I had I had a bit of a look in inside the swims module. And it just it did seem incredibly intuitive compared to some of the other software that I've looked at, which is like you give up before you even start.
Unknown Speaker
Yeah. Yeah, there's certainly there's certainly lots of competition out there. I'll acknowledge that and everybody's trying to do the right thing. I think one of the key things that we tried to achieve in workbox safety was keeping it simple. You know, so this is by no means a bells and whistles system. This is just a simple safety management system that assists businesses meet their legislative requirements. So we're not really trying to go over and above that, yeah. We're trying to provide them with that tool. So that I don't understand under our legislation, you know why every business is required to develop its own safety management system? Yeah, I think that the way that that's defined in the regulations is nice and clear. You know, and it just takes one person to build a really good system and allow other people to jump in board, and have a conversation about safety, rather than having conversations about how we manage our hazards and incidents, processes and that sort of thing.
Brendan Torazzi
So you mentioned at the start of the call that you were sort of you had those subcontractors in mind, what's been the uptake from those people that you used to manage? Other? Are they your target market, like smaller businesses? Or is it used by a variety of different sizes?
Unknown Speaker
Yeah. So interestingly enough, my biggest take up has been in the agricultural field. Okay. You know, so which is, I suppose, surprised me a little bit. And that's something that we've chased on from Tasmania. I don't know if I've mentioned that. So I'm sitting down here in Tasmania. And agricultural is a key industry, in and around where I am. And I think largely, that is what I'd build was exactly what people in the agricultural industry were looking for. They had a heap of resources in and around how to perform their operations. But because there are so many tasks involved, they were having trouble consolidating all that information into one place so that everybody could access it at the same time. Yeah. So that's what I found is that those businesses already had the resource available to them. They just didn't know how to manage it and work box safety field that piece for them.
Brendan Torazzi
So how do you go if say, using your platform, and you don't? Like it's cloud based? So what happens if you if you're in an area that doesn't have internet connection? Does it? Will it still work? Or?
Unknown Speaker
No, that's a very simple answer. It will not work.
Brendan Torazzi
Okay. Okay. So you've got to I'm not sure. Obviously, none of your clientele are in that position. Of course, I wouldn't use your system. But
Unknown Speaker
it's interesting. So
Brendan Torazzi
you mentioned agriculture. And I'm thinking, Oh, I'm thinking like out in the outback somewhere and doing cattle farms. And
Unknown Speaker
yep. And we were I was having just that conversation last week, with someone who'd been given a demonstration of their platform. And following that demonstration, they've decided to sign in and they openly, they asked the same question as you will it work in our remote sites. And I said, it's a web based application, that's not going to work for you. And their conversation quickly turned to will actually, only 10% of our sites probably are out of service, you know, so we can easily apply this to 90% of our sites, it will be better than what we're currently doing. And for those temps in our sites, actually, we all muster up here at the at the workshop before we head out to work. So why don't we just complete that stuff when we are in range, and then head out. And then there's a requirement for people to sign out when they've reentered. And for them that became a really in their mind at this stage, because they are just populating the platform, they separate themselves. Hang on a minute, that is actually really good, because now we've got confirmation that our employees are safe, they've returned from site, you've logged into the platform, and they've closed out their daily diary.
Brendan Torazzi
Yeah. Okay. So that's some So was it just the agricultural sector just took it up as you put it out there? Or did like, how did that come about?
Unknown Speaker
I, I suppose I engaged with, you know, these sort of startup communities, okay. And through that, they they taught me you know, how to do a bit of that introduction and legwork stuff when you're bootstrapping your new idea. And, and essentially, through that process was the push just to go and knock on doors. And it wasn't until I knocked on those doors that I realized that there was an issue. And the key thing in the agricultural space is that the workforce scales up and down, based on the season and the time of year. And that was another thing that they were trying to tackle is that you know, we're doing this work this year, but next year is going to be a whole nother group of employees. And we feel like we're just going to have to rework all of this again, is there an easier way for us to do that? So I think that's, that's where safety fell into itself. And then from there, I was able to engage with some of the associations around agriculture and remote myself, you know, very nervously setting up a station at a conference, you know, and standing there and look at A lot of a lot of people don't want to talk safety. You know, and down here in Tasmania, we'd probably get away with a lot more than they do in some of the other states. You know, so and I suppose what they've done for me, those that clientele is that they've provided me really good feedback on the platform, and having those developers so close. So when I say went and found the developers, I found people that I could face to face with so they are local here in Tasmania, the whole team is based in Tasmania. And so we were able to work shop, we were able to sit down over a pizza, talk through what the issues were, despite how we're going to fix them, and fix them rapidly for our for our clients before we tried to tried to go berserk, I suppose with the with the platform.
Brendan Torazzi
And so give me a sense of a timeline. Matthew, so how long ago was that, that you came up with? The
Unknown Speaker
concept was that? So that's, that's near on four years ago, four years ago started drawing it up. Yeah.
Brendan Torazzi
Yep. And then how long? Between that and getting your I don't know, your first paid customer?
Unknown Speaker
Yeah, it would have been, it would have been 18 months. Okay. So it's quite a while to build the platform. The platform is a very comprehensive platform. And as I said, we built the platform twice. Yep. You know, so that was a, that was a long process for and also, I suppose, restricted by capital, you know, my ability to actually pay people to work on the platform meant that there was only so much we could do. Yeah, and I'm still working the day job to to fund that. Oh, okay.
Brendan Torazzi
So you haven't gone all in on?
Unknown Speaker
workbox safety? Yeah. You mean today? Now? Yeah.
Brendan Torazzi
Like you're saying you're doing a day job is that you've got other
Unknown Speaker
that's what I was doing then. Certainly scaled back on it work.
Brendan Torazzi
Got it now. Yep, yep. Yep.
Unknown Speaker
I still do do that face to face consulting for businesses who want the bells and whistles systems? I assist them with that, you know, client I'm working with at the moment requires FSC certification. So, you know, working with them to make sure they can achieve that on the job.
Brendan Torazzi
Yep. So that sounds like you've broken out of just agriculture. Now, if you're doing FSC is the federal safety commission.
Unknown Speaker
Yeah, that's right. Yeah. So that is that is essentially my, my stomping ground is construction environment. Yeah. And, and I suppose out of all these, what I quickly realized in the agricultural space is that everybody wanted a different SOP. Okay, so what I was finding was hard for me to actually, because it was always my intention is to provide the system, but also to be able to back that up with advice. So like they could rapidly get running. You know, what I started to find is that there are businesses that don't have those procedures in place needed a big hand up and in the agricultural space, because everyone's doing it differently. That was hard to achieve. And, you know, so therefore, I started looking at the swim space and seeing a similar issue, but much more niche. So we actually have changed the game plan and produced another platform off the back of work box ad called Work box wins. And that's, that's the first market that we've actually actively marketed to. So we currently market into Queensland and Tasmania. I did mention that in Tasmania, we might get away with a bit more than we do in other states. You know, 99% of my take up is in Queensland.
Brendan Torazzi
Okay, that's interesting. Yeah.
Unknown Speaker
Yeah, that was that was a, I suppose that was comforting, you know, that was saying to me that, you know, there's, there's more to be gained from the mainland markets. And this isn't, you know, I'm not going to pretend that this is an easy space. You know, for a platform that is so cheap. I can be introduced to a potential new client, I can provide a demonstration to them, I can help them populate their pro program. And that might take, you know, three to six months just to get them on board the platform. And that's purely because of the speed which businesses are prepared to give. You know, whereas what I've found in Queensland going in cold is that businesses are prepared to actually jump online, sign up to the software, start putting together a bit of a swim and start using it. So that's company that the challenges I've experienced here in Tasmania, I might not necessarily experienced elsewhere in Australia,
Brendan Torazzi
I say so they're less dependent on you, and your consoling advice they can. I mean, that's a that's probably a testament to the software that you've designed in a way that if people can work it out for themselves that it must be super user in, you know, intuitive.
Unknown Speaker
Yep, I am. I that's typically the feedback that I get. You know, so once somebody's created their first swim in the platform, you know, they're, they're ecstatic. They're able to turn that around quickly, as opposed to the way they used to be doing it.
Brendan Torazzi
And are you finding that most of your new customers, we're doing it on a no, buy paper? Is that is that typically what's happened is happening out there in the marketplace?
Unknown Speaker
Yeah, that's right. And, and some of them not doing it. So I find the burning platform? Yes. Really, really important. For me, getting traction with the software. Yeah, you know, so the inquiries that I'll receive, you know, I've got this job that I need to go to next week. And they're asking me for swims, can you help me out? How does? How does your platform allow me to achieve that, and that's what I'm able to do for them. And when next week comes, they have this whim and they're ready to roll on up to that job, go ahead and deliver that confidently to the client.
Brendan Torazzi
And I guess from a user's point of view, yeah, I mean, their clients are gonna think they're there on it. I mean, it's a legislative requirement, isn't it that you've got to do a swim for? Is it any construction job? Or no, so
Unknown Speaker
it's high risk construction? High risk? I
Brendan Torazzi
beg your pardon? Yeah. Yeah. So it's what heights, electrical and space
Unknown Speaker
spaces? Yeah. And it's an interesting one dealing with at the moment is, you know, bringing in a concrete pump to do a big foundation and slab pour, you know, does that classify as high risk construction work? You know, so my reading of the legislation is that it's not, but swims are good work practices, why not just get in the habit of doing the swims for that kind of work, particularly given that there's that contractor? Engagement in that process, you've got someone who's bringing in the concrete pump, and they're going to supply that concrete to the workers. And on the other end of the boom, are your workers? Yeah, you know, so making sure that you've covered off in your swim, what that communication and interaction is going to be.
Brendan Torazzi
So your work box swims is kind of a is it a more sort of simple system like that. So the first one is like a comprehensive safety system that's got all your policies and procedures and the work box swims is for your day to day kind of activity, where you got to do high risk assessments and that sort of thing,
Unknown Speaker
I suppose so but within the back of them, you know, we're still tracking all the skills requirements, the copies of all their licenses and skills are in their platform and tracking their expiry. It's also managing any duties that you might give to the employee. So you can actually formally record that you've had a conversation, and they've signed off to say they accept those duties, typically, within workbox wins, you know, that area talked about around communications of policies, and that we can use that to house the standards in and around, you know, what is our standard here at the organization, around working at height or working in confined space? And again, through that communication process, your record that that employee has actually been part of that communication and consultation process. So you've always got those records within it, should someone come to the site and start asking questions about the swim? And then they start saying, Okay, can I check some licenses and competencies gonna check that you've delivered some instruction, all that is within the platform, as well, as is the other side of that, performing your review in and around the swim. And they're generating an action closing out that action, as well as hazard incident reporting? You know, so they're just key functions that are within both of the platforms.
Brendan Torazzi
And so you're having to, like, now, it seems like it's at a pretty good stage now, is there still constant development work to make it better or add things to it? So it does more things?
Unknown Speaker
Not at the moment, our focus is actually on putting together our own suite of swims. That's, that's where we want to go to next. You know, I, a lot of the businesses I deal with, I always ask them, like, you know, do you have a swim? Can you send me a copy of your swim? And I suppose I'm astounded by what they what they don't know or what they haven't recorded in the swim. You know, so What I really want to be able to do is rapidly provide them with the solution around the system, the operation of the swims, but also provide them with the swims knowledge itself to know what they should be checking to do a good job.
Brendan Torazzi
Well, I mean, it must be, be great getting all those customers in Queensland where you you're not so hands on.
Unknown Speaker
Yeah, that's right.
Brendan Torazzi
Give you a bit of breathing space to do some of the other stuff that needs to be done.
Unknown Speaker
Yeah, that's right. And it's just validation for me, you know, just in the process at the moment, you know, I, I, I'll be honest, I didn't I didn't trust Google ads. You know, I believe in Facebook marketing. That's not my thing. And but I just reached a point where let's give it a go and see what happens, we'll engage a third party to because it wasn't making sense to me. And they verified to me that, you know, a simple ad, is able to drag someone to the website, when they see the website. That's enough for them to sign into the platform. And then the platform, once they're inside, it's simple enough for them to start using salts validated the process for me, and now it's really a numbers game for us. You know, and you know, I would, I would love to be providing the software on mass, you know, the 600,000 construction businesses throughout Australia. You know, I dare say many of those are not doing swims well, or potentially a good few of those. Not at all. I'd love to be able to rapidly, you know, provide them with a step change, why they operate their business and demonstrate them to them, you know, that safety is, it is easily done. You just need to have the right tools and knowledge.
Brendan Torazzi
Have you read that book? Um, I can't think of the author, but it's called Crossing the Chasm. No, I think I think it's, I think you should read it. Yeah, it's about innovation and how when you have a, I guess, a new way of doing things to concentrate on one industry first, and then you then say, like, you mentioned agriculture before, what are the industries like agriculture that are a short jump, and you sort of slowly start mastering these pillars? Until you you get to a certain size, but rather, rather than a scattergun approach where you're like, I'll do a little bit for this industry in this that industry, and it makes it hard to get that groundswell. Like, it's it sounds like, with your agricultural customers, I'd imagine they would all speak to each other. That's right. And then so you get this momentum happening, where there's uptaken, or use workbox safety because John uses it, and he's had good results. And
Unknown Speaker
that's right. Yeah, it's very much follow the leader. Yeah, you know, and I have, I've key consultants who use the platform. So for workbox safety, there is actually a consultants platforms, it's up and above that, all that allows the consultant to do is to develop their own suite of swims, or sorry, SOPs. And then when they have a new client, when they have permission to access that new clients, work box safety account, they can then just push the relevant SOPs into that account. So it makes their establishment much more quicker. So they're actually managing their SOPs within their own account, and then sharing those with their clients as they need.
Brendan Torazzi
So how much of the business is driven by consultants using your platform as a I don't know, they their toolkit, I guess?
Unknown Speaker
Yeah, I would say that's about 1010 to 15%.
Brendan Torazzi
Okay. Okay. So it's probably a lot of room to grow there as well. That's right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Unknown Speaker
Yeah. I think this is one of the challenges, I think, in work health and safety across the board, is that
Brendan Torazzi
everyone's got their own idea on how it should be delivered, or
Unknown Speaker
that's right, everyone. Everyone wants to do it differently. And everyone's precious about their system and wants to do it your way. Yeah. And I'd, I suppose I'm an advocate within the industry of saying, you know, we talk about continual improvement, don't we? You know, and always seems to me, like we're always talking about, you know, we shouldn't be doing this. And we should do this differently and need to do that. And at no point did we actually ever stop and validate the process. And what I find is that if you actually just studied the legislative requirements, and you focus on implementing those legislative requirements, yourself a really robust health and safety management system. So let's put more of our time into just doing that. Yeah. Okay, really, really good at that.
Brendan Torazzi
Yeah. So I think what you're saying is that some may overcomplicate what essentially can be quite straightforward if you just follow the legislation.
Unknown Speaker
Yeah, yeah. And we sort of we attempt to throw the baby out with the bathwater. Yeah. Often, you know, by no means is work health and safety legislation broken. You know, I think the challenge is the implementation of it if employers were able to implement work, health and safety easily with minimal resource that take up would be much greater.
Brendan Torazzi
Yep. Yeah. Fantastic. Well, it's been great to hear your story, Matthew, and congratulations on your software systems. If they if people want to find out a little bit more about work box safety. What's your website?
Unknown Speaker
Yeah, so it's work box safety.com.au. And if you were interested in the swim, that's workbox swims.com.au.
Brendan Torazzi
Okay, that's fantastic. Thanks for coming on the show today. Matthew Greene. Thanks,
Unknown Speaker
Brendon. Take care.
Unknown Speaker
You've been listening to an ihs.com.au production.
Brendan Torazzi
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