TRANSCRIPT
Unknown Speaker
This is an ohs.com.au production
Brendan Torazzi
Welcome to Episode 51 of the Australian Health and Safety Business Podcast. I'm Brendan Torazzi, the host of the show and today and with Rachel Vickers from safer outcomes. Hi, Rachel.
Unknown Speaker
Hi, Brandon, how I yay, great
Brendan Torazzi
today. Thanks for coming on. Now, give us a bit of a brief on what safer outcomes does.
Unknown Speaker
So safer outcomes is a safe guess the safety document business for focusing for small businesses. We aim to help small businesses meet their safety obligations without too much difficulty and without too much confusion. We've been in business now for over five years. And in that time, we've helped hundreds if not 1000s of small businesses manage their safety. And yeah, we're really proud about that.
Brendan Torazzi
Oh, that's awesome. And you're do you're, you're in Queensland, but are you servicing all of Australia? Or where's your main? Where do your clients from?
Unknown Speaker
Most of our clients are in New South Wales and Queensland? Victoria has a very different view of workplace health and safety laws. So we do have some clients there, but mostly it's New South Wales and Queensland. Yeah, right.
Brendan Torazzi
Okay. And then. So how does this system work? You said, Is it a paper based system? Or it works on people's phones? Or tell us a little bit about what Yes, it does.
Unknown Speaker
So basically, it's, we started as just online documents that people could download, and then fill in their details. But we've just moved to a new system where people can fill in their safe work method statements, their safety manuals, their WHS management systems online, so they fill in their relevant details. Click OK. And it creates the documents for them. So they can email them straightaway, they can download them to their phone. Especially in construction, where, you know, everyone keeps their safety documents in the truck or in the electrical box. This is a much better way for people to have access so everyone can have access to the documents with no worries about getting stolen misplace destroyed in the weather. So it's yeah, it's a fantastic. Yeah, it's fantastic.
Brendan Torazzi
And and so you're saying the construction industry? Is that your main target? Or do you go after different? You know, do you have contextualized docs for? I don't know, plumbers and sparkies? And
Unknown Speaker
yeah, so yeah, so we deal with builders and all of the trades. So each of the documents that specific for those trades. So we've worked with experts in the field and taking my safety experience on board, but we also have clients in retail food services, gardening. So we we cover the gamut of all businesses. But I think, you know, everyone knows that construction is probably one of the most dangerous jobs around so we try and help them there. So I used to work at master builders, Queensland. So I've got a really good insight of what tradies and builders are facing. And yeah, I really want to make it easy for them. So yeah, that's what we've done.
Brendan Torazzi
And so, I'm going to ask her, I guess a bit of a simple question, what's the difference between, you know, having to do a risk assessment versus swims?
Unknown Speaker
Okay, so swims is a legislative requirement? In the new model? What's not even new anymore? It's 10 years old. Safety legislation. Yep. Yeah. Yeah. So it's a requirement for certain tasks in construction. So it's Wednesday is basically a risk assessment, but it's specific task orientated. You know, risk assessment is just looking at a task and deciding what hazards there are and what risks.
Brendan Torazzi
Streams are specifically for high risk activities. Under the under legislation, yes,
Unknown Speaker
yeah. Yeah. People get very confused especially about risk assessments and They make it more difficult than it has to be. And they sort of as soon as you sort of explain to someone, you do a risk assessment every time you cross the road, it makes it easier and it puts it into, you know, real life for them. So it's makes them easier to, to do it on a worksite without it being a big deal.
Brendan Torazzi
And so, your motivation for starting safe outcomes was master builders. That's how long were you there for.
Unknown Speaker
So it was that master builders for about three years. But I actually say, safer outcomes was in my mind for a long time before that. But it was, I guess, master builders that made me realize how much small businesses needed the help. So before that, I, I always wanted to help people. You know, be safe at work, my dad was injured at work. When I was a kid, and it had a huge impact on my life. I went to uni and got a degree in occupational health and safety. And But Master Builders really brought it home that small businesses are the ones that need help, and they don't get it. Usually it's all targeted at the big businesses, big companies and small businesses who have got no idea what's going on.
Brendan Torazzi
So when you say small business, like, what, how do you describe small business? Like how many staff because different you know, some government departments would say up to 50 people, but are you targeting a even smaller than that? Or?
Unknown Speaker
Yes, so we usually go for the micro or small businesses, which is one to 20 employees. So I think they're about 97% of businesses in Australia, small businesses. And yeah, you just don't hear about them, they are left to struggle by themselves. Big businesses have the resources to pay people to get consultants on board. And, you know, they do employ a lot of people, but small businesses going in alone, and they've got so many other things to worry about, you know, employees taxes, HR, it's so yes, safer outcomes really just wants to make it easy for the safety stuff.
Brendan Torazzi
And so how did you get how did you get it off the ground? So you did the master builders for three years, got the inspiration got a bit more of an insight into what trainees were needing? Yeah, walk us through how because you know, small businesses can be pretty tricky to get going. How did you get started?
Unknown Speaker
So I actually registered the business team, I think maybe six or seven years ago, so it was always in my head. And the safer outcomes comes from safe Rachele outcomes. So so I thought I was pretty clever. And I was like, I, I registered the business name because I didn't want anyone else to steal it. Because I thought it was so great. And then at master builders, I, you know, it was it was really great. And I loved it. And I learned so much. And just, I went traveling, and it really sort of made me think I need to I need to do something different. I you know, don't want to stay here forever. You know, it's time to take that next step. I was feeling brave after traveling. And so, I basically handed in my resignation to master builders and my manager Steph, she's, she's great. She's still at master builders. You know, we both were a bit like, CES, you know, they want to leave have to leave to take that next step. So the thing and yeah, just I took some time off and then got into writing documents in the beginning, I had a different vision for safer outcomes. So I believe that I would go out on site and help people and, and then I started writing the documents and I was thinking, you know, I can provide all the support, email or phone because our documents are so well written. And then we really focused on On explanations, so we've got readme first files that explain how to implement the documents, we give hints and tips. We've got a, you know, frequently asked questions. So yeah, we just decided that we're going to do it all online. And, you know, it's what I remember when we got our first sale. And we were so excited, it was concrete and swims. And we were so we're so excited. And now it's just, you know, we've created a really good email list. And we're building partnerships and opportunities with other businesses. And, you know, we're just helping as many people as possible. And, you know, we get emails and phone calls from people who just want advice, or, you know, they're not sure which document to purchase. And once they get the documents, they're well on their way. So that's Yeah, it's really good.
Brendan Torazzi
So I'm just curious what that first sale was that you said it was a concrete thing swims? Had you already written that? Or was it more of a case that they came to you and said, Hey, we need a swim as for this activity?
Unknown Speaker
Yeah, we actually had part written it. And this guy wanted some extra details in it. And I was, we were like writing and formatting and everything to to get it out as soon as possible. So we, yeah, it was. It was about 24 hours, because that's at that stage. We, yeah, we sort of said you'll get it within 24 hours. Yeah. But yeah. A bit of pressure. But now it's instant downloads. So yeah, we don't need to worry unless someone asked for something specific. So. But yeah,
Brendan Torazzi
was there a trend sort of, like coordinated somebody else come and ask for a concluding swims, or was it in some different area? Like, how did you know what to write? And, you know, how did you how did you prioritize what the library look like? Yeah, so
Unknown Speaker
I think we sort of carpentry carpenters were the priority. And then I think about the third or fourth swims we sold was commercial shed building swims. So that one I did? Yeah, that one I had to write as well. So and we've never sold another one since. Yeah. Yeah, very neat. And I think the most we've sold for builders, management plans, commercial and residential, we've split them up because commercial is quite different to residential. And plumbers. Plumbers love us for some reason, they always come to us. So yeah,
Brendan Torazzi
but I mean, isn't a site that I'm in? I'm not singling out master builders, by any by any stretch. But isn't that type of a just provide their membership base anyway? Oh,
Unknown Speaker
yes. So I'm not sure what they do now. But when I was at master builders, they had basically a swimmer's template, which was a blank template. And I spent many hours sitting on the phone, going through people with people what they should be including in their swims. And so I'm not sure if they've got developed it from there or not. Yeah. Yeah. So our swims are basically take you from the beginning of the job, to the end of the job includes all the tasks, including the non high risk and the high risk, because you still have to manage safety, even if it's not a high risk construction activity. So our hours of you know, it's who else has all the controls that you should be doing, what the risks and hazards are. And it's easily easily editable. So if you don't do a specific task, you can just remove that. And it's Yeah, so Mossville. This has had a blank template. And it was really difficult for some people, some people were, so they were so worried that if they wrote it wrong, that they were going to get fined. And it was, they were quite panicky about it. And so, yes, I'm not sure what they're doing now, though.
Brendan Torazzi
So is that 8020 rule where like, let's, you know, we'll talk about plumbers because you're saying that's a popular, popular train to take your From your documents, that isn't like your document would cover probably 80% of plumbers, and then they've just got to contextualize the last 20%.
Unknown Speaker
Yeah, I think that's fair. They every job is going to be, there's always something that pops up. But we've tried to keep it broad enough that, you know, the scope fits. So if you know they're doing a particular task, then you can, you know, we might say, working around mobile plant, for instance. So, you know, that can incorporate quite a number of jobs, tasks. You know, so it's, there's, I think we haven't really, other than the concrete thing and the shipbuilding, we have actually not had anyone really come to us and say, Can you add this for us? You're missing something, some in five years? I'm pretty pleased about that.
Brendan Torazzi
Yeah, that's amazing. And is a model like they just buy it once? And it's done, or is it different from that now?
Unknown Speaker
Yeah. So we used to have that. And then we were starting to get phone calls and emails saying, has the legislation change? Do I need to update, and we realized that we thought we were doing a good job by making it easy, but we were actually doing is after some time, they were starting to worry that they were missing out. So that's, so we've now worked or built a subscription model. So basically, they pay yearly, and they get the most up to date documents. So every time they fill in a swims, which is just their details, and they download it on, you know, online, they know that it's up to date. It allows us to create new toolbox talks and new documents that they get instant access to. So we've had some really positive feedback. So we're just in the, I guess, the soft rollout of that moment.
Brendan Torazzi
So the server subscription models only been going is that a recent thing? Or?
Unknown Speaker
That's right. So I think we launched it. I think we launched it on the fifth of July for our fifth birthday.
Unknown Speaker
Right? Okay, so that's yeah, really here.
Unknown Speaker
Yeah, so. But we've had some really good feedback already. So I'm really, really pleased about it. And one of our guys, he's a commercial builder. He's, you know, he's come back and really happy with it. And so that's really pleasing, because he was a previous client, who bought one of our products quite a while ago, and he was worried that he was not going to be, you know, up to date with these documents. And then he was missing something. So for him, it's one less thing to worry about, every time he gets a swims or a plan. He knows that nothing's changed. And he's also got heaps of new toolbox talks and that kind of thing. So yeah,
Brendan Torazzi
yeah. So so I'm just getting this in my mind. They basically they login to the safer outcome systems, they fill out the swims, and they're able to email it to themselves at the end of that process. That's right. It's software is it's rather than,
Unknown Speaker
yeah, it's, it's it's a, we use a nother software system. So we've created online forms that have we've attached our documents to. So they, they fill in their details, and it automatically fills in the document. It downloads to their phone or computer, and they can email it to anyone. So it's really good. Yeah.
Brendan Torazzi
How long does it take to fill out a swims
Unknown Speaker
about 30 seconds?
Brendan Torazzi
Okay, that's pretty quick, especially if you're doing doing them a lot.
Unknown Speaker
That's right. So basically, and we've got auto fills. So once you've filled in one, you can auto fill your details, you can upload your logo to it, so it looks professional. We know some of our people use it for tender applications. So it makes them look more professional than everyone else supplying because they've got all their safety documents. They don't have to be asked for it. And yeah, so
Brendan Torazzi
and does it save it in the cloud as well like, just in case the email got lost or
Unknown Speaker
you know, so they just download it straight to their phone or whatever. I might talk to our software guy and see if we can see if we can get something like that going because that's a good right idea. Yeah, I'm
Brendan Torazzi
just thinking, you know, like people lose stuff or whatever and then appears to be able to get or you get, you know, something happens. And then the regulator steps in and you want to be able to access site that's happened in the past and show a history.
Unknown Speaker
Absolutely. I was just thinking even just to have a library of your own documents, so you can show a paper trail that, you know, you are consistently doing your, your safety documents, so that's a great idea.
Brendan Torazzi
That's my 20 cents. The other thing that occurred to me like I know, this sounds really basic, but is there any, I don't know, training around to how to fill out a swim. So have you come across anything like that? Like, that's as soon as pretty elementary, but I'm wondering whether some people I don't know, it's probably on YouTube or something like that.
Unknown Speaker
Yeah, so I guess, if you don't have your own, if you don't use our documents, and you have to write them yourself, there's probably not too much training I used to deliver the cert for and diploma modules for well, the safety modules in set. Yeah. And so during that, I would teach them how to complete a swims. And so they were, they'd been doing, you know, work for years, and I would be training them and they would just be have no idea. And they were so relieved when they found out it didn't have to be as difficult as they thought it's just a bit of time and effort. But I think it's, you know, for some people, you know, they do want to write their own swims. But I guess my mind is the safer outcomes documents, all you need. So
Brendan Torazzi
it seems to be a pretty common theme actually going through safety that we companies generally overcomplicate things. The lady that we had on Episode 50, she was a a lawyer for an advisor for contractors. And she was saying how Supatra when she was saying that it was people just overcomplicated things and it just wasted so much time and effort and money. Because, you know, I think the more you know, more is better than just having less than to sync system. So it sounds like yeah, you definitely fall into that sync category.
Unknown Speaker
Yeah, it's definitely
Brendan Torazzi
sorry. Alright, sorry, I cut you off there. Yeah, it's definitely
Unknown Speaker
it's definitely a thing. And people just get so worried about it, that they just stick their head in the sand. So they think that if they pretend it doesn't exist, they can just claim ignorance. But we all know, that's not the truth. So yeah.
Brendan Torazzi
One other thought I had was, how do they sign off on it? Like, in fact, do they need to they sign on their phones? Or how does that how does that work?
Unknown Speaker
So basically, there's nothing in the legislation that says specifically that they have to sign off. So you can use email as proof of receipt. But we also, we also have a swims, register, so that people can sign off on it to say that they've read it. And we do. And we say, as I said, we have, you know, a list of hints and tips. So we do encourage people to email it and get a reply back to say, yes, I've I've read it.
Brendan Torazzi
Yeah. Yeah. Cool. That's excellent. And so what's the future for safer outcomes? What are you? Where are you looking to take the business? You've been going for five years? So you're out of the woods? So to speak? A little? Yes.
Unknown Speaker
Yeah, we're past that. That sort of level where they say after five years, I think it is that if you're still in business, you're more likely to keep going. So we're building partnerships and relationships with other businesses so that we can help more people. And we own the.com and the.co.uk. domains. So we're just looking at what we can do with that. Obviously, it's not an Australian focus, but you know, if we can help other people with informational and toolbox talks, and that kind of thing. You know, it would be really great.
Unknown Speaker
The world is your oyster.
Unknown Speaker
Yeah, I'm really excited. And, you know, it's always been a goal of mine to help as many people as possible. So yeah, I'm super excited. Now, let's
Brendan Torazzi
bring it Okay, Rachel, if people want to find out more about safer outcomes, What's your website?
Unknown Speaker
It's www dot safer outcomes.com.au
Brendan Torazzi
That's brilliant. Thanks again.
Unknown Speaker
Thanks for having me, Brendan.
Unknown Speaker
You've been listening to an ohs.com.au production.
Brendan Torazzi
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