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Ming runs one of Australia's biggest dance music companies fuzzy.com.au. In this candid interview he tells us how it all started and what are some of the health and safety concerns Fuzzy have to look out for when running festivals. Obviously COVID has temporarily stopped outdoor festivals of these sizes but it won't be long before it all gets up and running again.
TRANSCRIPT
Unknown Speaker
This is an ohs.com.au production
Brendan Torazzi
Welcome to Episode 41 of the Australian Health and Safety Business Podcast. I'm Brendan Torazzi, the host of the show, and today I'm joined with Ming Gan from Fuzzi. Hi, Ming.
Unknown Speaker
Hi, Brendan, how are you?
Brendan Torazzi
I'm well. Well, thanks very much for coming on the show. Now, I was really interested in speaking to you because you run one of Australia's biggest dance music promoters and have been going for what, almost 25 years now?
Unknown Speaker
Yeah. 2021 will be our 25th year. If you accept that 2020 was a year, but 2020. We started in 1996. Actually, in nightclubs, and then progressed to festivals. And I've been it's been 25 years. Same partners. Wow, crazy.
Brendan Torazzi
That's amazing. So we How did you first get started? Like what gave you the idea? Well,
Unknown Speaker
it was a little bit of fun. And it was probably thanks to you, actually. So you know, prior to all this, I was working in property development. And Piemont was a an industrial area. And it was an industrial area that was going to be rezoned into residential. And so developers basically started buying up all the warehouses in that area, waiting for Sydney City Council to rezone the area into residential so that we could build residential apartments.
Brendan Torazzi
So that was, was Pima kind of rough around that.
Unknown Speaker
It was very well, it was combination of rough and derelict
Brendan Torazzi
all the best features,
Unknown Speaker
all of their 3d, lots of history. And I think, look, you know, a lot of the companies that had warehouses they're basically sold, because they were getting a much basically the value of the properties when skyrocketed, you could develop up to I think it was eight stories. Apartments. So yeah, I mean, while we were waiting for the line, the approvals are not actually not the approvals were actually waiting for rezoning as well as the approvals.
Brendan Torazzi
So so let me get this right. You actually, the business you're in own the warehouses, correct? Yeah. Okay, good. I
Unknown Speaker
bought this warehouse. I actually decided, because I was pretty young back then. There was a caretaker, his apartment at the top. I thought I would just go live there as well. So I
Brendan Torazzi
didn't I didn't realize that as well as living living in the warehouse. And,
Unknown Speaker
yeah, that was only for a short period of time. Yeah, it was maybe like, probably three or four months or something like that. Yeah. You're squatting. Squatting. Yeah. And, and yeah, I mean, I think you and I talked about, you know, this would be great face to face to a party, etc. And I was like, Well, I didn't know anything about throwing parties or anything like that. And you said, Well, why don't you just, you know, advertise in 3d world and see whether that you know, anyone, anyone's would be interested in putting on a party there. So, so I did that. And lo and behold, Jackie O who was promoted a really well known promoter, he did all these huge parties at the horn, and he was running a really famous clubnight called lunacy at metropolis. He turns up with a DJ called John Wall. And they're like, We love the site. Yep, let's do it. So they put on a noose a party in 1993 94, actually, at this warehouse, it wasn't quite legal. Yes, I didn't have the proper approval. So
Brendan Torazzi
so that was what I was curious about, like, what was a? because I'm trying to get like, last century comparison on you know, like, what was Were you even concerned about safety stuff like, or, or was it it was a different era? In a way it was
Unknown Speaker
it was it was a different era of, you know, there was a lot of it was the era of, of of illegal raves. Yeah. You know, there were a lot of English rave promoters that were actually breaking into like derelict warehouses and putting on parties. Wow, I have no no Actually no. No kind of authority or you know, And whereas at least you know, we own
Brendan Torazzi
less. Yeah. And that was exactly what was in the building or was it bare bones was the whole appeal?
Unknown Speaker
It was. It was it was a beautiful space actually, it was the it was actually the old Westpac kind of warehouse for their vehicles. Okay, so it was open open space. Yeah. Over kind of one, four level and then an in a basement level. Yeah. And it was great. It was a really beautiful space. And toilets. Yeah, there were toilets. And but but they had to bring in a whole lot of toilets writing and yeah. The, the, the interesting thing was, I mean, in terms of fire safety look, there was it was plenty of
Brendan Torazzi
like fire extinguishers.
Unknown Speaker
fire exits, everything like that. I think Jackie actually did get get his fire warden into because Jackie of you know, whilst whilst Jackie does like to play on the edges when it comes to safety, etc. But but he didn't go through the process of getting a formal approval from Council. Yeah, Ryan's council would probably
Brendan Torazzi
be the event would have been over by the time we got the approval. Pretty much.
Unknown Speaker
Yeah. So yeah. So instead Jackie printed off a big sign that said harbourside film studios that Yeah, put it over the top of the Westpac you know, automobile, automobile kind of warehouse,
Brendan Torazzi
and hey, presto, you've got the coolest warehouse party happening is even Sydney.
Unknown Speaker
Pretty much and you know, we had the security that that, you know, if anyone was to come and say, hey, you know, is this approved or not? Yeah. It was a wrap party for the harbourside for your film studios.
Brendan Torazzi
And so, so it's interesting that, you know, like, even though, you know, that safety was still a concern, like if he was getting the fire warden in and I mean, wouldn't it would have, they had first aid and that sort of thing close by, or,
Unknown Speaker
ya know, the he definitely had first aid. So it's, it's, I suppose there's, you know, there's safety, which involves,
Brendan Torazzi
like compliance to government
Unknown Speaker
councils, I mean, Council, there's so much red tape to something when you know, that, hey, you know, it's actually but then there's also actual safety for the patrons. Yeah. If, if something, you know, I suppose, from Jackie's point of view that, you know, he would be personally liable for, you know, if someone you know, overdosed, or there was a fire or anything like that, you know, all the other things that that council, you know, it tries to put you through it's a lot of it. Doesn't doesn't make sense. Yeah. We were talking about a completely industrial area, no residences, etc. Yeah. You know, they probably would have had an issue with sound. Yeah, it's just one of these things.
Brendan Torazzi
Yeah, it's a box. It's a box that needs to be addressed. At least.
Unknown Speaker
Yeah, yeah. Yeah. And you know, when you work for a bureaucracy, you just gotta go through every single box, even though? Yeah, there's no logic. But yeah. I mean, things have changed now where, you know, everything that we do, we have to go, we have to tick every box, every single box.
Brendan Torazzi
So give us an idea of the scale of that party, like how many people turned up.
Unknown Speaker
So that wasn't that huge. It was 2000 people.
Brendan Torazzi
So that's your first party. You're involved in you just lazy 2000 people?
Unknown Speaker
Well, I mean, the thing is, I wasn't actually my party. I was Yeah, we were, I was just the
Brendan Torazzi
landlord.
Unknown Speaker
So 2000 I mean, 2000 was not a lot of people in that space. Right space from from memory would have been, you know, it was in around about 4000 square meters or something like that. So that's a lot of space.
Brendan Torazzi
So almost almost COVID friendly. Almost. Yeah, almost. Not that that would have been a concern at that time. But
Unknown Speaker
well, it was. It's Queensland COVID friendly.
Brendan Torazzi
And so what happened after that, so that was kind of like, a bit of serendipity really wasn't that yeah, that property was available, and you put the ad in and these guys knocked on your door. One.
Unknown Speaker
And then what happened there is that the party went well, there were no issues. I became really good friends with Jackie and John. You know, we were just friends just hanging out, chat, whatever and then in about 94 Late 94, maybe early 95, Jackie was kind of opening a club called Sky, which was on top of Sky Garden. And we were out to dinner one night and Jackie was like, Oh, do you know anything about lighting? And I was like, wouldn't have a clue. You got your perfect things that you know about computers, right? And I'm like, kinda you guys, look. We're opening this Saturday this I think it's on a Tuesday, we're opening the Saturday. My lighting guys basically, like decided these doesn't want to do it. You know? Can you do it? I have no idea. He goes, Well, I can get you through a crash course. And then you know, be fine. We'll all be hanging out. A lot. Yeah. Okay. Well, I'll give it a go. Yeah. And yeah. And so I had a crash course. And, and luckily, back then lighting. Lighting boards are really simple. But
Brendan Torazzi
you will see what I mean, like 2122 that kind of?
Unknown Speaker
I was 22. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. And lighting bodies were really easy. And operating lasers are really easy. You know, nowadays, it's yeah, you know, the computers, everything. What you can control. It's crazy. But it was really quite simple. So, you know, I decided, well, yeah, okay, I'll do it. And then what ended up happening is that, like the DJ, and the lighting person, were all like, in a section, which was kind of I don't know how to explain it, but it was kind of like two levels up. And so John was DJing was a DJ, this, he used a DJ for eight hours, I was off reading lights for eight hours. And we just for that period of time, we kept on talking and saying, Yeah, you know, John was like, oh, you know, I really want to do own parties. And you know, like, maybe, you know, I think there's just a different market from these like credible music bla bla bla, and
Brendan Torazzi
partners with Jackie at that point, or they would just mates.
Unknown Speaker
No. Well, John had a light was given a minor share of the New Year's party, without any risk. Yeah. But no, he had not put on a party himself. Yeah. So yeah, so we just talked and then suddenly was, yeah, let's give it a go. And in fact, the first thing that we did do was a, we thought there was a gap in the Mark was a cool under eighteens to alphas first ever party together, which was probably in like June. And that was July because of school holidays. 1996 is called elevation. Back then, it was really tough to get a venue for an underwriting but we met, we actually come and did a restaurant with the restaurant owner was kind of like, Yeah, I'll clear everything out. And, you know, I've got the approvals to do functions here. So we can do that. And yeah, I mean, it was crazy. We, we we pre sold hardly any tickets. Yeah. So all
Brendan Torazzi
right. So that that was a bit of a risk, wasn't it? Just hoping that would people
Unknown Speaker
would Yeah, I mean, we we had heard from quite a few people, that underwriting just turned up, they don't like because I don't have credit cards. I don't pay on the door.
Brendan Torazzi
And there's obviously no internet or social media or anything like that. So that's right. So word of mouth. This
Unknown Speaker
was all through, through, you know, we we had kids to kind of give out flyers outside bus stops and schools and stuff like that. Yeah, we targeted, you know, the eastern suburbs, la Northshore. Kind of private school kids, because there wasn't anything specifically for them. And yeah, the first elevation. I think the venue had a capacity of 250. And I think we ended up turning over 400 people. It was huge. It was yeah, it was. I mean, it was a Sweatbox because it wasn't, you know, the restaurant wasn't built for kids dancing. But it was a huge success. Yeah, that was our first kind of show together. And then we were like, Yeah, at the same time we were, okay, well, we want to do an overriding show as well. And it just happened at that same time. There's a guy called Simon Paige who wanted to open this nightclub, well, not really a nightclub, he wanted to open a venue that that he would then rent out to promoters, you know, to put on shows and and so we decided we do our first overriding shows there and that was in August 1996. Our kind of idea was, you know, make it fun and credible. So the artwork was based around, tuned spotting. So Trainspotting and we changed it to tune spotting and we did a photoshoot with the DJs that replicated the the the artwork for Trainspotting? Wow, we just we just made it, it just made it. Yeah made it fun and, and John and I were out every night for four or five weeks just giving out flyers to people talking to people like this is old school promoting. There was no social media, nothing like that we were, we were on the ground, you know, outside the Metro theater after a gig, giving out flyers talking to people. And you know, the venue had a capacity of 600. We were like, Okay, well, we're going to, maybe we're gonna give away 200 tickets. And then hopefully, if we can get another 200 people, then, you know, we won't make money, the first show, but 400 people in a 600 venue for your first show is a pretty good outcome. And that's, that was our plan. So, you know, all along that was our aim just to because this was our first party. We we had no brand, we no one knew who we were really, I mean, then they knew the DJs. But, you know, they've never been to, like, who's fuzzy? What's all of?
Brendan Torazzi
You weren't fuzzy by this stage? Yes. Yeah. Can
Unknown Speaker
we? Well, we were, we've called the parties fuzzy present. So it was like fuzzy presents tune spawning. And so the night of the show comes, and there's like 2000 people outside the venue, oh, my gosh, streets fall, like the police had to come to clear out the streets and straight and, you know, we managed to turn over like 800 People like it was at capacity all night. And you know, that was our first overriding show. And, and to start that way, meant that we had this momentum. So every single show after that, you know, for like, a year was sold out in advance. Wow. It was great. It was a really great way to start the business.
Brendan Torazzi
And so like with the venue, did they? Were they doing anything? So like I know, around about that time, we'll actually I don't know exactly what there was clubs that were turning off. Like that was kind of the whole ecstasy heyday and clubs, were turning off cold water and only having hot water. So you'd have to because they won't make any money.
Unknown Speaker
Well, I mean, interestingly enough, sublime was the first venue to have a full time medic. Okay. Yeah. So, so So
Brendan Torazzi
this fuzzy presents June spotting went on to another night called Sublime is that?
Unknown Speaker
Yeah, no. So what happened was the venue was called sublime. Gotcha. Yeah. And then what happened after a year of the of because we weren't the only ones doing parties? Yeah, of course, there were like, transmission. There was there was a whole lot of other promoters rotating maybe once every six weeks.
Brendan Torazzi
Was that in? Was that in? Like, downstairs in Pitt Street or something? Yeah.
Unknown Speaker
Downstairs in Peachtree? Yeah, yeah. 44 feet straight. And basically, after a year, the owner said, oh, you know, I am not making enough money out of this. You know, I need to somehow make more money. So, so he basically said, Look, you know, like, can you guys run a regular night? Yeah, we will. Oh, okay. So we started running a regular Friday night, which was called voodoo, which became legend, legendary was like a hot house techno night. And
Brendan Torazzi
it was, was there any curfews at this point? No, in this can go 24 hours a day, or?
Unknown Speaker
Yeah, yeah. In fact, there was. I can't remember which October long weekend. It was, I think it was like October long weekend in like, 1998. The club was open for like, 72 hours straight. Oh, wow. Yeah,
Brendan Torazzi
just sort of thing would just never fly these days.
Unknown Speaker
No, no. I mean, look, it was, it was part of like the owners kind of, you know, he had this you know, yeah. Yeah. Let's just Let's just, you know, make make a statement. Let's just open it for 72 hours. We thought it was like, Crap idea. Because we, we had to kind of
Brendan Torazzi
be there the whole time to supervise. Well, we
Unknown Speaker
had to be on shifts. Yeah. So you know, he'd go to sleep I'd come out and I mean, on the other hand, John made his wife's there so on that night yeah, yeah. But But yeah, it was it was pretty crazy. I you know, I don't know how you wouldn't even be able to get get that through with occupational health and safety with this with your staff. Right. I don't know. I
Brendan Torazzi
mean, that any more dangerous. So that's, I mean, this is what I'm I'm curious about like, we've got a lot of rules and regulations and red tape. I'm just wondering, was it? Was there a monumental shift in? You know, is it more dangerous back then? Or what? I mean, what are your thoughts around that?
Unknown Speaker
No, I look, I don't think it was more dangerous back then at all? Well, look, I think the one thing that has changed, which we can see is, you know, like people taking drugs in terms of back in those days, you know, whether it's ecstasy and MDMA, or whatever was, it, it's, it was quite low, the drugs were imported from overseas or whatever. And it was almost like, there was some, you know, chemist over there, that was really proud of what they created. And they branded.
Brendan Torazzi
Okay, right. oriented quality control.
Unknown Speaker
Yeah, absolutely. It was all quality control. And now it looks like the drugs are, you know, made in, you know, by by keys in their backyards, and with the worst possible, kind of, you know, rat poisons and anything like that. And that's, that's the issue as well. So. So I think that's where the danger is.
Brendan Torazzi
So I want that's probably a good segue, because I wanted to fast forward to like some of the, like, the events that Fazzy puts on these days, like you're really famous for Field Day, and listen, how, I mean, what sort of numbers are you getting to those events?
Unknown Speaker
Well, Phil days been selling out 28,000 tickets every New Year's Day. For last, I mean, we had, we started with 10,000 in 2001. But and then we got to increases until we reached 28,000. I think it was, like five years ago that we were allowed 28,000 And that's our maximum capacity. So
Brendan Torazzi
things inevitably with that many people must go wrong, at some point. How do you
Unknown Speaker
look think yeah, things, you know, I mean, you know, at the end of the day, you know, John, Adele and myself, the three partners, what we do on the day, is we're actually waiting to put out fires even as fire. Right, literally, that is our role. Everything else should run, you know, like, like, the operation should run, like a staff should know what they're doing all that kind of stuff. But we're there to put out fires, whether it's, you know, something to do with the staff, the police, the artists, etc.
Brendan Torazzi
And is there a collaborative approach between online, say, the police and you as the event organizer? Or
Unknown Speaker
in some cases? I mean, look, we have to, you know, it's a crazy thing. We, we we pay for user pay police in New South Wales, okay, who's you know, unused days is? How much of these minutes over 100 bucks an hour or something? Yeah, yeah. You know, and, you know, which we don't have any issue with, except for the fact that, you know, if we're paying for user pay police, you know, we want them to collaborate with us, we're not paying for user pay for lease so that they can, you know, make our lives harder, you know,
Brendan Torazzi
that it's akin to apply employing someone and then they just make you don't really want me to
Unknown Speaker
comment on the commander though. And, you know, I don't have much to do with it is the one that deals with the the commander and some commanders she's had her been fantastic, really great relationship. You know, they, they're very much. You know, they're very straight up. Yeah, the right thing, etc. Yeah, some
Brendan Torazzi
depends on the night before. I guess that's not enough. They've had a big night. And,
Unknown Speaker
yeah, well, it does. But it depends who the commander is. And whether he, you know, he believes in everything to level the law, you're someone who's more pragmatic and going, well, you know, this is a business, we're all trying to work together and make the best outcome. And it really depends on who you get. But, you know, we've had some great ones that have really, you know, helped us in, in, in situations where, you know, for example, you know, when you've got sold out shows, you've got lots of young kids, usually under 18, who, who want to get in, jumped the fence. And, you know, like, marauding groups of like, 30 kids trying to push down fences, etc. You know, with a good commander, that the commander will send the police because the kids are scared of police. They're not scared of security, but they're scared of police. So, but, you know, we've had years where the commander is like, that's not that's not part of our role. Right.
Brendan Torazzi
Okay. Yeah. So I guess Yeah. Is there any kind of ratio between, I don't know, X amount of 1000 1000 people and the amount of medicals that you need to have on site Like you say,
Unknown Speaker
yeah, there is a ratio. I mean, I'm not exactly sure what the exact ratio is, again, Adele is, you know, that's that. That's her. But yeah, there's a there's a ratio. And we always go above that, because that's one thing that we want to make sure. Is, is absolutely right.
Brendan Torazzi
So, so if someone does get hurt, how do you? How do you deal with that?
Unknown Speaker
Okay, so, you know, if someone gets hurt, it depends where it is, like, for example, if someone's injured, and you know, usually what will happen is that the, you know, a friend or someone will see someone injured, they'll find security, someone in security, security will go to that person. And then the security have been have a map with grids. Yeah. So they can then radio in that there's, you know, so and so there's a injured person broken leg in grid, e4. And the medics would then go to that position to find that, and then the medics will be the ones that make the decision, do we? Can we treat this person here? Do we need to, you know, take them into the medical tent, so, so there's usually like two major medical tents, air conditioned, etc, with all the equipment in there, etc. So, so usually, it's taken to that point there. In our major events, we also have we, we also have, like, an ambulance. Okay. So that you can quickly, you know, transport the, the individual if need be, yeah. So,
Brendan Torazzi
it sounds like, you know, if you're, you've been running those events since 2001, you must have a really good track record for I'd imagine, you know, like, there's been some competitors, for example, that if the shit really hit the fan, then it's going to be harder to get approval year after year. Right. If you
Unknown Speaker
Yeah, 100%. Look, you know, I think the trouble is that we're dealing with, you know, young people who some are not very responsible, yeah. All we can do is make sure that we've got everything in place to ensure that we are able to
Brendan Torazzi
you make it as safe as possible. And absolutely, you know, if stuff goes wrong, you've got processes in place to make sure that that can be attended to.
Unknown Speaker
Exactly, you know, you can't, you can't kind of, you know,
Brendan Torazzi
babysit every single person attending exactly the level of self responsibility, I
Unknown Speaker
guess. Absolutely. And then for us to make sure that, you know, if that we have the best possible. Yeah. Kind of
Brendan Torazzi
systems in place. Yeah. Got it. Yeah. Oh, that's great mean. Well, look, thank you very much for sharing your story. What, what are your plans for the future? Now? Obviously, 2020. With COVID, I would imagine, as put some of these larger events on ice for a while.
Unknown Speaker
Yeah, I think the larger events, probably not going to come back to at least the second half of next year. And it'll be very interesting from, you know, before a vaccine is available everywhere. What other kind of health and safety requirements? Yeah, it's really hard. Because, you know, that I think the problem is, is inconsistencies. Yeah, you can afford 1000 person, actually, more than that, I think the other night at State of Origin and, and yet, you know, they're stopping kind of like 3000 people from going to a general admission dancing. Like dance. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So.
Brendan Torazzi
So if people want to find out a little bit more about what you do mean, what's your website?
Unknown Speaker
Yeah, it's simple. Just fuzzing.com.au
Brendan Torazzi
Brilliant. Okay, mate. Thanks very much for coming on the show today. No problem, Brendan.
Unknown Speaker
You You've been listening to an ihs.com.au production.
Brendan Torazzi
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