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TRANSCRIPT
Unknown Speaker
This is an ohs.com.au production
Brendan Torazzi
Welcome to Episode 29 of the Australian Health and Safety Business Podcast. I'm Brendan Torazzi, the host of the show and today with Kate Smolinski. From bulletproof performance. Good afternoon, Kate.
Unknown Speaker
Good afternoon, Brandon, how are you?
Brendan Torazzi
I'm great. Thanks for coming on today. So tell me about you and what bulletproof performance does.
Unknown Speaker
So my background is in engineering and that journey, which should it has been an it continues to be has taken me now to instead of engineering water sensitive urban design, I now engineering behaviors with Bulletproof performance.
Brendan Torazzi
Okay. That's, that's pretty cool. So what made you transition from an engineer to a human engineer, so to speak?
Unknown Speaker
I think part of part of that reason is, I've always been a very human or humanistic engineer, okay. I've had the opportunity to work with an incredible amount of teams in different locations. And I've seen teams that work extremely well. And I've always been very interested in that. And for the last goodness, 15 years, having worked in environment, health and safety, realizing that quite often it's not the rulebook, that is the difference between achieving safe outcomes. It's quite often the way the rulebook is written the way that it's read the way that it's reinforced. So the journey has taken me to book and performance bar, I have a huge opportunity, one of my team, so a number of my teams were actually part of bulletproof performance programs. And I was hearing as part of those programs, the difference that it was making to people, a resilience program that my business partner rep Morris had run, was really resonating with people, and it was creating change, and it was creating a change in mindset. So we expanded those programs within the company that I was working, and I liked it so much,
Brendan Torazzi
I joined the company, blind to the company.
Unknown Speaker
That's right, that's essentially the story, when you see that you can make a difference in the safe space, to that extent by giving people information and then being able to relate that to, you know, the standard dry, swim or JSA. And make a difference. Yeah, absolutely. I was going to be in on that opportunity.
Brendan Torazzi
Yeah. And so what was the business that you were involved with?
Unknown Speaker
So I was working in a construction business how to one contractor, you know, huge, hugely successful with actually a very good safety methodology and record.
Brendan Torazzi
Oh, that was using bulletproof. Possibly.
Unknown Speaker
I'm proud of what we do also addresses psychological safety. So our programs focus on people under pressure. This is where the key differences,
Brendan Torazzi
which is which is just about everyone these days, isn't it? I mean, I mean, that's sort of our culture now that we, we put ourselves under pressure
Unknown Speaker
your eyes, whether we do whether that's the expectations that are put on us, or that we put on ourselves, yes, people do experience pressure. And I think you're right differently to what used to happen. It's just that we haven't adjusted and we haven't allowed ourselves to understand what happens. And we see, I guess, if you if you're just looking at safety, and the pressure resulting from very long hours and very little sleep, you can statistically see the differences that we get in that service. But you're right, it's it's definitely a new world. And there's a number of people that are struggling to adjust to that pressure level on code, or thrive in us. Our intent is to get people thriving under pressure to be able to
Brendan Torazzi
high performance and but feeling good about it at the same time.
Unknown Speaker
That's exactly right. I think that initial intrinsic perception these days of anything that's stress related or pressure related is makes you Yeah, that's the case at all.
Brendan Torazzi
Yep. And so were you, you from memory before we spoke, you said you're out of Melbourne we or you're in Geelong or am I right or
Unknown Speaker
no, I'm based in Melbourne, I got an airport near you. Okay, I spend a lot of time with clients in Sydney and also
Brendan Torazzi
Okay, so it's a national national program that you run yesterday's. Yep. How about internationalist there hasn't been any appetite is up.
Unknown Speaker
All over Ah, all over Australia. And in fact, earlier this year, we spent some time across in Malaysia with a client.
Brendan Torazzi
Okay, and so walk us through what you'll typically do, is it? Is it a construction industry? Or is it does it go across various different industries? Client Experience, they ring up and say, Hey, we're trying to prevent, we've got a good safety record, but our people aren't running along with it. And we need help.
Unknown Speaker
Sure. So our scope in terms of clients is if you have people within your teams, or teams, because everyone is subject to this book, a lot of our projects are with large construction organizations, but also in the banking industry, our childcare sector. I do work specifically with cadets and graduates across a number of different sectors, large infrastructure projects, tend to certainly like our programs and respond really well to our programs. So a typical client experience is you would ring up and we would undertake a discovery session. Our programs are very tailored to the needs of our clients and the needs whilst you know under a broad umbrella of performance under pressure or resilience or a safety program. They are very specific, and we're in tune to classes Sydney's buyer, that discovery program, which is asking the right questions, mostly to get the right answers, you need to ask the right questions. So we start off with a discovery session to identify what the pressure points are, what the opportunities for improvement, find out more about the safety record, have a look at any available statistics. Find out what questions being asked currently, when it comes to safety incidents. Quite often people are very quick to look at the form and say, right root cause what is it picking up they are, it's not that simple. There are gray areas. So following a discovery session, we're able to tailor a program. And in some cases where we've worked with shift workers who has you know, very much in a high risk group, when it comes to fatigue related incidents, we would run a program focusing on energy and how they can manage their short and long term energy levels. So a energy program would cover fuel hydration, stress management, and of course, sleep. Right now in Australia data, very topical issue that issue of sleep, we're finding that the statistics that were reported in the physical bedtime reading, a very apt title for a parliamentary inquiry report, bedtime reading stated that 40% of Australians are getting adequate sleep, when, as part of our programs, when we run a diagnostic survey with teams, we're finding that they're spot on. So we'd be in construction, whether it be in public service, it's about 40% of people who are currently not getting adequate sleep.
Brendan Torazzi
So how do they define that is that would that be less than, I don't know, six hours or seven hours.
Unknown Speaker
So the guidelines seven to nine or seven to eight, depending on which guidelines you read. But the costs associated with inadequate sleep to the business, let alone the actual risks when it comes to safety. A huge that particular parliamentary inquiry have provided some frightening statistics, where there's a 50% increased risk of occupational injury or absenteeism, or safety violations. And that can be attributable directly to fatigue and employees and asleep disorder. The figures that are putting around this is that if you take into account health and well being costs, as well as the costume, the harmony ends up being over $65 billion annually, just in Australia, and one of the most frightening statistics is that inadequate sleep over the 1617 financial year, they estimated or contributed to over 3000 deaths in Australia live. Oh, wow. It is a huge issue. And uh, one of the things that we find, you know, when you're working six to six, six days on and then you're asked to switch shifts and then asked to switch shifts. The implications when it comes to safety are not only for you and the team when you're at work there when you're driving home when you're driving to work the next year of course. So the energy program really focuses not just on the person as an employee, but the person has a 24 hour lifecycle human being, and try to make people aware of enable manage the risks associated with some of the things that can directly impact the image in particular roles.
Brendan Torazzi
So do you have any views on what? As far as rosters go? Is it better to have a set? Like say you're working night shifts? A better to always be working night shifts? Or a swing shift? Yeah, well, I think what you call it a swing shift, I know where you're working for a week, and then days and the new flip tonight's.
Unknown Speaker
So my opinion is based on the large amount of people that I've worked with that are shift workers and always asking them a question in terms of what happens to their levels of alertness, having a look at statistics around incidents. And ultimately, it comes down to this, once you're used to it. Day three, you're okay. It's the first three days of the change. And it doesn't matter whether the changes from day to night or night today, people seem to settle into the routine By day three. But it's the swapping and changing. So those people who are needed sometimes during day shift, and we've laid her back on nice and a week later are back on day. They're the ones that really put themselves in the extremely high risk category, simply because they know how their mind and body functions. Everything from their short term memory recall to their hand eye coordination gets impacted, and they feel it. Yeah. Not to mention the statistics around micro sleeps. Yeah. That's another thing that whilst it may happen outside of work, it's going to impact you and I as we're driving along next to somebody who's just come off a 12 hour shift is quite able to drive the vehicle the way that they normally.
Brendan Torazzi
So how do you get staff on board? I mean, sometimes some of these programs come from upper management, and you know, they see a problem, and then they roll it out? How do you actually get the troops on the ground to actually sit up and take notice? And like, because you've, you've got this program that's been able to get cut through how do you, I'm just wondering how you get them on board, because that's No, that's not always an easy feat, because changing habits is, is pretty hard. Or it can be
Unknown Speaker
we find that, especially for shift workers and construction workers, short, sharp 45 minute sessions once a month over a six month period, very effective. The reason for that is we can provide information allow people the time to explore that have a go, that then come back and put an element of accountability around trying something different. And what I find is the team's there's an element of peer pressure, as well as challenge they challenge each other to try new things. That level of engagement comes from the material that we present, you know, my job is to be engaging into to find that people's trigger points and to identify what is going to make them take action. That's the thing that motivates me is being able to give somebody information, but for them not only to engage with it in the moment, but to take long term action. So that auto impact results. Look I've had I've had great stories of people who as a result of fatigue and energy management program, end up quitting smoking, because they they realize that as we're talking about their health, that is their key trigger and it's also a key stressor and it doesn't help them under pressure. I've had a number of people who have given up the energy drinks I use inverted commas when I say those words, because they understand what happens and they've been able to to regulate the energy levels rather than spike them and then see trough and it's it's that information in that exploration you come back the next month and you start talking about a different element asleep or a different amount of what a proper hydration is. And by hydration I mean water and electrolytes not just let's go up on what a sugary drink you're into that moment.
Brendan Torazzi
Years ago, I did some training for a mining company around fatigue management. And I found it was like it was like two weeks of sessions with shift workers and I found that people were always so when you talk about sleep they get quite animated and passionate about it particularly shift workers. So yeah, it's a it's a I guess it's something that is you know, unique to warm up all humans experience and need it so it's something like that's a shared thing we all need.
Unknown Speaker
We had a bit of a laugh about it too. You know, depending on the audience. I'm Certainly discussing the hormonal impacts of sleep and what happens to our bodies from that rebalancing perspective as we sleep, that that quite often creates some side anecdotes, which we'll won't repeat. But you have to have fun with the material. But that's how you engage people. And you're right. Sleep is something that everybody has an opinion on. And everybody has an experience of, it's a great leveler. I think the days of heroics of your I function on two hours sleep, and I wear it as a badge of honor. I think that's where we are. People really do realize the risks associated with inadequate sleep. And so they really need to listen, they're interested in finding out how to better manage that.
Brendan Torazzi
Are you seeing much? As I said, it's been quite a while since I've sort of been on the forefront of fatigue management. But how's like meditation in the workplace coming along? Has that, because mental health is such a big topic now. And so I'm just wondering whether that's progress now in workplaces, and whether people are more open to that now.
Unknown Speaker
It's audience based? Yeah, look, certainly there are some groups of people where we discuss ways to retain calm and control and clarity, where the idea of meditation or mindfulness is seen as something of benefit and value and people have an intrinsic understanding of that is some audiences. As soon as you say, meditation, mindfulness will say, buzzword rock doing that, and get their hard hat back on their heads. So there are certain groups of people that do see the benefits of it. Personally, part of the kind of my experience is one on one coaching with people. And I know, on that level, when people are willing to be very transparent, and honest, that is a practice which people find extremely difficult, but the ones that do get traction, get incredible results from a performance under pressure perspective. Being able to be mindful to be conscious of what's happening to them be able to use meditation as a way of retaining control and calm, goes straight to their personal legacy straight to their professional legacy. And they're probably the best advocates for our shows, you know, will tell you that it is, it's like yoga, you don't do yoga, you practice yoga, it says meditation, yoga, meditation, you engage in the practice of meditation.
Brendan Torazzi
Well, I'm in the work workplace is just changing all the time, I guess. It's, um, you know, where it seems like we're much more open to speak about these kinds of topics than maybe we were 20 years ago. And
Unknown Speaker
I agree. There's also an element of skepticism, too. I think some of the wellbeing programs have swung the pendulum a little bit too far, to say, oh, here we go. Here's some self care that you can undertake. So everything will be okay. In the workplace get back to work now. Yes. You know, people were saying that, that's fantastic. We appreciate the level of care and the wellness program is fantastic. But on the other side of that there's the balance isn't quite right. You're asking us to undertake a workload, which is beyond our capability, or perhaps exceeds our capacity. And believe it or not, the meditation class that's right at lunchtime isn't going to help. So there's some skepticism that also grows out of organizations that use wellness programs to mask the fact that perhaps their resourcing isn't, where it should, where it should be.
Brendan Torazzi
And then so what other types of what would you do with organizations? That sounds like fatigue and energy is a big part of it?
Unknown Speaker
It certainly is that it has real impact on safety. Performance under pressure is a program that we run, which has has elements of energy management in it, but getting people to have a look at what happens to them as individuals under pressure. It's surprising to know that when you ask someone the question of how does your brain respond to stress? Some people will look at you and think, I've never really thought about that. I don't know how should it it's, it's a really good question. And it gets people thinking, you're I don't know who and if you've never thought about it, then you should consider how you perform under pressure and what that means. What is your situational awareness like? And how do you then reset priorities, which is something that is expected of all of us in the workplace, when you don't know what your immediate response is? Is it to to be oppositional be form of change? Do you have a physiological reaction? You know, what is? What are the thoughts that drive the feelings that drive your actions when you're under pressure? And how many times have you been in a position where perhaps you've come to regret selections later on, which would have never occurred? Had the pressure not been there? Yeah.
Brendan Torazzi
Yeah. Oh, I'm sure it sounds like there's never a dull moment with with the work that you're doing. Get to work with lots of different people and make, you know, actually make a difference in their personal lives and their business lives. And get the stuff outside of work humming along, then I guess that just makes work easier in some ways.
Unknown Speaker
It does identifying people's pressure points, and then getting them to take action about those pressure points, is fundamental to people retaining a level of resilience and then being able to build on that resilience to people being able to perform under pressure. And of course, communications that have been part of that is one of the questions that we ask of individuals and teams is having only the techies under pressure. And apart from you know, the general feeling that people describe, they'll tell you about how communication changes. Many cases, leaders are not aware of the small changes in their communication style, especially when they're under pressure and the impacts. That translates to, to the rest of the team is it is interesting, I love getting emails from people to say, these are the smallest sustainable changes that I've implemented. And I you know, all right, myself. Hi, now, the resilience scale, I will perform better under pressure. People that put in the deliberate practice, get real results, and 30 years is beyond the eight to six working day. Definitely.
Brendan Torazzi
Cool. Well, I'm got just some short questions to wrap up. Now. Kate, how many hours sleep do you get each night?
Unknown Speaker
I get between seven and eight hours of sleep each night.
Brendan Torazzi
Okay, excellent. And then what do you do to keep healthy and fit?
Unknown Speaker
I never sit still, if you ask anyone that knows me. My energy levels seem to rejuvenate the more energy I use. So I'm a big fan of tennis. I would like to say I play well. I have a pretty mean crosscourt forehand and an unpredictable hair. Look out. I have two young daughters that keep me extremely active. So we're out on the bikes. scooters, you will find me hanging upside down on the monkey bars because I can. Yes, and basketball is a recent interest, so or a renewed interest. So a whole lot of physical activity. But not only that, I do practice what I preach. I spend time focusing on retaining my calm and control clarity through mindfulness exercises
Brendan Torazzi
are good on you. Do you have any personal goals that you're looking to achieve in the next 12 months? Oh, yes.
Unknown Speaker
But they are personal.
Brendan Torazzi
Okay. That's all right. I'll move on to the next question. What if you could be remembered for one thing? As part of your career? What would what would you like to be remembered for? So what's what's your legacy?
Unknown Speaker
Kate gave me information, which triggered a positive change, which allowed me to become a better version of myself, which allowed me to be safer at work, which allowed me to do the things that I used to think we're really difficult and scary. And now I feel like I am resilient. And I can do that. And that pressure no longer stops me. And I feel three inches taller.
Brendan Torazzi
Oh, that's awesome. And then just finally, if people want to reach out to you a bulletproof performance, what's your website?
Unknown Speaker
It is bulletproof. performance.com Today, you and they can reach me by email at Kate at bulletproof performance.com, don't you?
Brendan Torazzi
That's absolutely fantastic. Thanks for coming on, Kate.
Unknown Speaker
It's a pleasure. It's been a pleasure to speak with you. Thank you